Tip the pizza delivery driver!

[LucyDuke]

I sincerely doubt I'd ever want to go there. Nothing personal, but the place doesn't appeal to me.

And you are pointing your gripe in the wrong direction. Point it at the one paying you a below acceptable wage.

That's what the if was for. Doesn't bother me.

The employer and most of the customers know the system and work well within it. I've got no gripe with my employer and I've got no gripe with most customers. It's the ones who play the game without playing by the rules that bug me. (Servers suck it up and deal with it, but there's an attitude in this thread that they shouldn't even be upset about it, which is unfair and plain rude. If that's going to get a "blame the system" response, please include a detailed guide on how to fix the system.)

Then you are placing a (hidden) premium on service I expect to be standard, and a service advertised as freeto boot. That's both dishonest and poor customer service.

I'm sorry that you expect it to be standard. It's not. If I were doing the advertising, I wouldn't call it free, either.

Why would I drive your pizza to your house for free? Just for fun?

I expect a basic standard, that being that my food is delivered reasonably fast so I can enjoy a nice hot pizza. Since that is my only expectation of you (apart from that you get my order right) I don't really see any room for improvement. Either you do your job or you don't and as far as i'm concerned you either earn your money or you don't. If you suck at your job and can't deliver hot pizzas then I expect you to get the sack and be replaced by someone competent. Either that or i'm gonna start ordering from someplace else.

So do you pay a reasonable tip to the delivery driver that brings you your pizza reasonably fast? If he does his job, you pay him, right? What are we disagreeing about here?

False Dichotomy. I expect to pay more for better pizzas, but I don't expect to pay more just to get my food delivered in a satisfactory condition, see above regarding basic expectations. In fact the idea that I might get a cold pizza just because someone else has slipped you an extra fiver would mean me taking my money to someplace else where people can fulfil my basic requirements. See above again.

Because my basic expectations are high enough that I don't expect to receive a cold pizza. Cold pizza=you can't do your job, not =I am a cheapskate.

Misunderstanding, I think. I'm not a pizza deliverer. I'm talking more about bar and restaurant settings, where if you tip well you're never going to have to wait for a refill on your drink or stare at an old dish.

Anyway, get off your horse, he's going to muss up the carpet. You can go somewhere else if you like. I'm sure there are plenty of satisfactory restaurants in Worthing where you've got your own system that works wonderfully. Nobody said you have to like the way we do things here. Or understand it, for that matter. Your "I'll take my money elsewhere" is silly and irrelevant.

 

[warpus]

The employer and most of the customers know the system and work well within it. I've got no gripe with my employer and I've got no gripe with most customers. It's the ones who play the game without playing by the rules that bug me. (Servers suck it up and deal with it, but there's an attitude in this thread that they shouldn't even be upset about it, which is unfair and plain rude. If that's going to get a "blame the system" response, please include a detailed guide on how to fix the system.)

As long as it's a gratuity (ie. optional), some people will just not pay. You kinda accept that when you take up a job that relies on tips.

The 'rules' are confusing. On one hand it's a "payment for good service", on the other it's "socially required", yet it isn't really required..

I'm not saying it confuses me - but I eat out often.. so I've figured the system out. I'm also not cheap, so waiters like me.

Misunderstanding, I think. I'm not a pizza deliverer. I'm talking more about bar and restaurant settings, where if you tip well you're never going to have to wait for a refill on your drink or stare at an old dish.

This would work at a bar - as you tip after every drink.. but at a restaurant? You won't know what the tip is going to be until the end - unless it's a regular.

 

[Mise]

Why would I drive your pizza to your house for free? Just for fun?

I don't care why you do it, all I care about is the fact that it says "Free Delivery!" on the leaflet through my letter box.

 

[The Yankee]

I'm sorry, but the reason why establishments don't even need to advertise taxes is because they are imposed by law, and law is to be known by all people, consumers and businessmen alike.

If that were true, there would not be a million Speed Limit signs or Curb Your Dog, Fine = $100 signs or Left Lane MUST Turn Left signs floating around here.

That would be an argument for having a suggested tip line on a menu, and maybe it should be so. Not having a giant sign outside the store "In New York City, the sales tax is 8.625%" or posting the totals of each item with tax included seems to fail the "law is to be known by all people" thing. You'll either know that it'll be imposed going in, like one knows that you tip the waiter going in, or you'll be hit with it at the register or with the blank stare on a waiter's face when you tip him only a smile.

Maybe the above is not true in other countries and they really do post all such things. If so, that'd be fantastic, as figuring in a sales tax (if you get hit by one at the register) is more of an educated guess unless you carry around a pocket calculator. Maybe we really should be posting everything to avoid miscommunication.

 

[Rik Meleet]

The Yankee:
What is the reason the depicted price of goods is without sales tax anyway ?

As a naiev stupid dumbo when I see €35 I assume that if I want that article I'll leave the store with exactly €35 less in my pocket. I don't get why I'd need to pay €38.02 when I see €35. Why is that ?

 

[.Shane.]

As a naiev stupid dumbo when I see €35 I assume that if I want that article I'll leave the store with exactly €35 less in my pocket. I don't get why I'd need to pay €38.02 when I see €35. Why is that ?

/hand to head

Its all socialization. I thought you were smarter than this? If you had been raised in, say, North Carolina, you'd have a social expectation where this made sense to you.

See, being raised in California, when I visited Europe I expected things to cost more than the list price because I was expecting sales tax. That's what I'm used to. When they didn't, I did say "WTH?" and then I asked a couple questions, figured it out and somehow managed to move on with my life and my visit. Its not that hard.

 

[The Yankee]

The Yankee:
What is the reason the depicted price of goods is without sales tax anyway ?

As a naiev stupid dumbo when I see €35 I assume that if I want that article I'll leave the store with exactly €35 less in my pocket. I don't get why I'd need to pay €38.02 when I see €35. Why is that ?

I'd say it makes it look better when you have a $9.99 item than a $10.42 item or whatever it'd end up being, even though a person would end up paying the $10.42. The reason that there's always a $9.99 or a $19.95 kind of price is so they can say "it costs less than $10!" and supposedly, people do look at such things differently than if it were the slightly larger true price.

The fix would be to keep the $9.99 price, but to have the taxes included in that (or to have the store just pay out whatever sales tax applies)...but that would mean less profit for the store, instead of tacking on the tax and taking $9.99 in revenues.

 

[Mirc]

I'd say it makes it look better when you have a $9.99 item than a $10.42 item or whatever it'd end up being, even though a person would end up paying the $10.42. The reason that there's always a $9.99 or a $19.95 kind of price is so they can say "it costs less than $10!" and supposedly, people do look at such things differently than if it were the slightly larger true price.

The fix would be to keep the $9.99 price, but to have the taxes included in that (or to have the store just pay out whatever sales tax applies)...but that would mean less profit for the store, instead of tacking on the tax and taking $9.99 in revenues.

It would look even better if it was $0.01... that's not a valid reason. Still doesn't make sense IMHO.

 

[warpus]

The Yankee:
What is the reason the depicted price of goods is without sales tax anyway ?

As a naiev stupid dumbo when I see €35 I assume that if I want that article I'll leave the store with exactly €35 less in my pocket. I don't get why I'd need to pay €38.02 when I see €35. Why is that ?

It's usually: "$x.yz plus applicable taxes" around here.

 

[Gogf]

Honestly, Warpus, your position seems a little odd to me. I find it hard to believe that there are many people in this country who are totally in the dark about tipping and are afraid to ask their more knowledgeable friends.

 

[Whomp]

A lot of people don't tip because they come from cultures where tipping is not the norm - and they don't eat out enough to realize that it is a norm here. They are mostly older people.

If the establishments that prop up this 'tipping culture' took some effort to inform (on their menus, for example), this wouldn't be such a big problem. You mostly learn this stuff by going out enough, and figuring out who to tip, and who not to tip.. and how much.

In NYC you have to state on the menu that parties of 6 (might be 5) can add 15% to the bill. This was quite an issue earlier this year when a SoHo restaurant added 18% to 3 French expats bill. They were not happy when they heard the reason why it was added.

 

[warpus]

Honestly, Warpus, your position seems a little odd to me. I find it hard to believe that there are many people in this country who are totally in the dark about tipping and are afraid to ask their more knowledgeable friends.

It really depends who you socialize with - all my friends know "tipping rules". My parents' friends? Not so much.

 

[Lotus49]

Lotus, thank you. You don't believe in tipping, so you don't use services that require tipping. You're not the jackass who doesn't leave 15% for service that met expectations, you're the irrelevant guy who stays home and eats TV dinners. As someone who makes less than half of minimum wage before tips, I appreciate that you stay out of the discussion restaurant.

Oh yeah, I just got a haircut, and gave a nice hefty tip. So I don't want to hear anyone talking about me being stingy. And as for me being or not being in the discussion - that's got nothing to do with you, your decisions, nor your desires. KthnxBy

 

[Lotus49]

Lotus, weren't you saying there was a job opportunity in Tokyo for you? Suddenly it seems like a better fit...

Yeah I probably would fit in there... if I were (at least) 1 ft shorter, was Asian, and spoke Japanese. As it is, I fit in better in America, or at least 'Western culture', even with all it's crazy obsession with digging into my wallet and making me feel obligated to part ways with my cash... via a wide variety of methods.

But in the end, it's all just chump change, and I really don't care. A buck or two here or there isn't going to make much of a difference... ONLY because I avoid putting myself into these types of situations as best I can. Now, if that were not the case, it would all add up - to be sure.

 

[LucyDuke]

Oh yeah, I just got a haircut, and gave a nice hefty tip. So I don't want to hear anyone talking about me being stingy. And as for me being or not being in the discussion - that's got nothing to do with you, your decisions, nor your desires. KthnxBy

I didn't call you stingy. I called you not a jackass.

 

[FredLC]

I'm not here to argue about the law about sales tax. Social customs are usually known by all people, too. I'm just pointing out that tips aren't a unique hidden cost.

Than perhaps the example shouldn't have been brought up, as it's obviously flawed. Thing is: how much a service costs is something only the provider knows, at least until he informs the clientèle; Taxes, however, are legaly determined, and the buyer has as much duty to respect it as the seller. No choice at all there.

Anyway, it's quite obvious that this discussion is going nowhere, because it went to the point of a clash of principles, and as far as principles goes, everyone can choose that of their liking.

I tell this, though: I consider it absolutely insane that an operational cost/risk of the business is being bared by humble workers instead of business owners - and more - that these taking the heat are here ferociously defending that things are perfect as it is.

In that contour, in which, IMHO, you guys are demanding improvement from the wrong tip of the triangle - costumer, who has no obligation except pay for the product - instead of businessmen, who has a duty of calculate costs. While this lasts, you can scream and shout as loudly as you want - you'll still get nowhere, and be at mercy of costumers as being paid or not.

Judging them badly because of that does not change one iota that sore reality.

Regards .

 

[Perfection]

I tell this, though: I consider it absolutely insane that an operational cost/risk of the business is being bared by humble workers instead of business owners - and more - that these taking the heat are here ferociously defending that things are perfect as it is.

What's your take on sales commissions?

 

[Rik Meleet]

I'd say it makes it look better when you have a $9.99 item than a $10.42 item or whatever it'd end up being, even though a person would end up paying the $10.42. The reason that there's always a $9.99 or a $19.95 kind of price is so they can say "it costs less than $10!" and supposedly, people do look at such things differently than if it were the slightly larger true price.

The fix would be to keep the $9.99 price, but to have the taxes included in that (or to have the store just pay out whatever sales tax applies)...but that would mean less profit for the store, instead of tacking on the tax and taking $9.99 in revenues.

"it looks better" is not an argument the legal system and the book of laws works with.

 

[Rik Meleet]

/hand to head

Its all socialization. I thought you were smarter than this? If you had been raised in, say, North Carolina, you'd have a social expectation where this made sense to you.

See, being raised in California, when I visited Europe I expected things to cost more than the list price because I was expecting sales tax. That's what I'm used to. When they didn't, I did say "WTH?" and then I asked a couple questions, figured it out and somehow managed to move on with my life and my visit. Its not that hard.

Since I'm raised in a region where the price I see is the price I pay I'm eager to learn and understand why some other regions have a different system. So far I've been unable to understand the system of "the price you see isn't what you pay - you pay more" and I'm asking people from within the system to help my broaden my understanding. That may not look smart to someone in your region, but in my region we consider the goal of expanding ones knowledge as a positive thing.

 

[brennan]

I'm sorry that you expect it to be standard. It's not. If I were doing the advertising, I wouldn't call it free, either.

I'll ask you straight: Does it strike you as dishonest for a pizza delivery company to advertise delivery as 'free' when it isn't?

Does it also strike you as unreasonable for me to expect that when I order food it arrives hot enough that I don't need to (re)cook it myself?

Why would I drive your pizza to your house for free? Just for fun?

Because in a cut-throat business providing that service helps you sell more pizzas? I would have thought that was obvious.

So do you pay a reasonable tip to the delivery driver that brings you your pizza reasonably fast? If he does his job, you pay him, right? What are we disagreeing about here?

Yes I pay him. I pay him whatever it said it had to on the menu, because that is the legal contract I entered into with his business when I ordered. If it's pissing down with rain i'll probably give him a couple of quid extra as well.

Misunderstanding, I think. I'm not a pizza deliverer. I'm talking more about bar and restaurant settings, where if you tip well you're never going to have to wait for a refill on your drink or stare at an old dish.

Sorry. Employing a rhetorical device. I was aware that you were not a deliverer of pizzas.