Tip the pizza delivery driver!

[Grisu]

That way you won't be tricking a minimum wage earner out of an expected income, and it will allow him the freedom to decide whether to follow the "weird social nicety" that pizza delivery boys should not piss on pizzas before delivering them.

PS-See what can happen when people arbitrarily cast aside manners in favor of a personal code of etiquette that others don't recognize? Isn't the whole point of manners to help us function as a society?

not quite, it's the delivery guy's job to deliver the pizza ASAP, and not piss on pizzas and similar. That's not just a 'etiquette', it's his bloody job.

 

[FredLC]

In Singapore, there is a mandatory 10% service charge. Service sucks crap 90% of the time. As a customer, I prefer to tip.

I think it's a good system for rewarding the employee for customer satisfaction at the customer's discretion. The key word is, of course, customer satisfaction. But all systems have a flaw, and in this case the flaw lies in stingy customers.

System sucks? But shouldn't the "invisible hand" privilege delivery services which respect their clients over services that do not?

Don't get me wrong. I'm a "tip-er". 10%. It's just that tiping isn't a system; it is a contingency! If tipping is not an obligation, it's not something that can be counted on, and if it's not something that can be counted on, tha it's nothing that can be the main rewarding factor of a certain job, for it transfers part of the business risk from employer to employee.

Regards .

 

[brennan]

But this is still a self-centered attitude. If you are aware that the social norm is to provide a tip for adequate to good service, you should do so.

Just because something is a social norm does not make it a good idea, right, or even polite. The tipping culture you describe sounds damned rude to this Brit; it is presumptuous to expect a payment beyond the stated price and it is unfair of society to accept as a matter of course that someone should not simply receive a fair rate of pay for the job they do.

When you take the job you sign a contract with your employer. If your agree to accept the risk that a customer does not feel obliged to tip you then that is entirely your problem, if you object don't sign the contract and go find a job where they pay you a flat rate.

That way you won't be tricking a minimum wage earner out of an expected income, and it will allow him the freedom to decide whether to follow the "weird social nicety" that pizza delivery boys should not piss on pizzas before delivering them.

How am I 'tricking' anyone? His boss should pay him for the job he does. Period. It should be entirely up to me whether or not I tip someone should they provide what I consider to be a high standard of service. Threats to piss on my pizza do not constitute good service. Standing on my doorstep gawping at me instead of giving me my change does not constitute good service.

 

[brainpan]

Just because something is a social norm does not make it a good idea, right, or even polite.

You're right on the one point but probably wrong on the other. As you say, not all social norms are necessarily good. However, etiquette is very much what a given society dictates, it is not a universal value.

The tipping culture you describe sounds damned rude to this Brit...

That is interesting, of course, but your perception of ettiquette is different than what many experience in the States. Quite frankly, a person refusing to tip for good or even adequate service over here would usually be seen as quite oafish, to put it charitably.

How am I 'tricking' anyone?

Simple. If the social norm is to tip for a service, and you do not, then an expectation of payment is not met. If your primary concern is really about fairness, I don't think you would be too burdened to warn the service in advance that you did not intend to tip.

His boss should pay him for the job he does. Period.

There are a lot of "shoulds" in this world. Unfortunately, we have to deal with reality instead.

Threats to piss on my pizza do not constitute good service.

I apologize. My rhetoric was probably a bit too subtle. I wasn't suggesting that people threaten you with piss, but only that your "island unto himself" attitude isn't appropriate in a society.

 

[brennan]

Simple. If the social norm is to tip for a service, and you do not, then an expectation of payment is not met. If your primary concern is really about fairness, I don't think you would be too burdened to warn the service in advance that you did not intend to tip.

And why is it such a burden on the pizza company to not just charge me for the service?

 

[brainpan]

not quite

Yes, quite. Absolutely. Etiquette is like a contract between the people who belong to a society. There are certain expectations of how we are to treat one another.

You couldn't care less about the welfare of the person performing a service for you, but it's not legally required that you do. Then again, this person's respect and courtesy towards you is not legally required either.

If I were the owner of a business that was regularly abused in the manner you suggest, I would simply refuse to answer your call. You could harumph around about that all you like, but it would be the simple reality.

 

[brainpan]

And why is it such a burden on the pizza company to not just charge me for the service?

You're talking societal norms again. You may not like it, but that's the way it is here. Again, it would be great if the world was all about "shoulds" and we could pick and choose them to our own personal taste, but it isn't.

It's been said that if you want to make the world a better place, you must start with the man in the mirror. Abusing minimum wage earners because you have an intolerant Anglo-centric view of etiquette is probably not the best way to do that.

 

[brennan]

Who's talking about societal norms? Why shouldn't I expect to pay the price advertised?

And again what's this BS about mimimum wage earners? They signed a contract, they get paid. Sounds fair to me. You want more, get it in writing.

 

[Bamspeedy]

And why is it such a burden on the pizza company to not just charge me for the service?

Because all of these places want to offer "free delivery" for advertising purposes. If they absorbed the cost of delivery (edit:in place of tips for example) into the standard price of the pizza, then nobody would ever come pick up the pizza themselves.

 

[brainpan]

Who's talking about societal norms? Why shouldn't I expect to pay the price advertised?

The tipping is a societal norm. We've gone over this before.

 

[kuukkeli]

Just because something is a social norm does not make it a good idea, right, or even polite. The tipping culture you describe sounds damned rude to this Brit; it is presumptuous to expect a payment beyond the stated price and it is unfair of society to accept as a matter of course that someone should not simply receive a fair rate of pay for the job they do.

This Finn agrees with the Brit above.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Also, a bit of advice...you may want to check out to drive for some locally owned pizza place instead of Pizza Hut or Dominos.

Person should carefully check out the other places. Some just don't have many deliveries.

First job I worked at a pizza place that was attached to a bowling alley. It was on the very edge of town so our delivery area did not go to the northern part of town, but we did have a monopoly of delivering to another town seven miles away to the south (could drive the seven miles of highway faster than 4 miles through city traffic to go north). On a monday or tuesday I'd make $25-$40 in tips. Weekends I'd make $60-$80 in tips. Got $0.50 per delivery, unless it was in that southern town where we charged the customer $1.00 delivery which I would get. I got sick of that place because they kept having me do more and more of the cooking instead of just driving.

Second job was at a Happy Joe's where the owner and his wife operated two stores. Free delivery, unless it was across the river into Minnesota where they charged them $1.50 for delivery, which I would get. I don't think I ever made more than $30 a night because I usually only ran about 12 deliveries. I can't remember, but I think I got $0.50 per delivery for the 'free delivery' places.

Last one was at a Pizza Pit which was operated by a guy who owned two stores (which he later changed to Pizza Zone, then later sold it to the manager who ran it into the ground so the store no longer exists in my town). Smack dab in the middle of town and literally right next to the UW-L campus (I could have walked to some of the dorms). Like I said before, here I would make $100-$120 a night in tips ($80 on a slow night). This place (and Domino's) were the only places open past bar time, so 2AM would be just crazy. Gas reimbursement was by mileage instead of per delivery.

edit: all paid minimum wage

 

[bhsup]

To the Brits, Finns, and other foreigners: It's expected over here. Fine if that is not the case over yonder, but if you come visit the USA, please have the decency to play ball and tip the pizza delivery guy, okay?

To Americans not tipping: You should be ashamed of yourselves, plain and simple. If you don't want to tip, go get the pizza yourself.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

To the American, is it also expected when the guy is half an hour late, rude, etc etc. In other words, is tipping totally unconditional?

If so, it's silly system

 

[bhsup]

Late is probably beyond the driver's control. Rude is not and should of course be taken into account. But I honestly cannot think of the last time I have had a rude pizza delivery guy or gal.

 

[Bamspeedy]

To the American, is it also expected when the guy is half an hour late, rude, etc etc. In other words, is tipping totally unconditional?

If so, it's silly system

If the service isn't acceptable, then it is fine to not tip. Even if it wasn't the driver's fault for being late, not tipping is understandable then.

The problem we have with the 'stiffers' are those that never tip, no matter how good the service was.

 

[brennan]

Because all of these places want to offer "free delivery" for advertising purposes. If they absorbed the cost of delivery (edit:in place of tips for example) into the standard price of the pizza, then nobody would ever come pick up the pizza themselves.

So NOW i'm rude if I don't pay for free delivery. This is pure comedy.

 

[brainpan]

So NOW i'm rude if I don't pay for free delivery. This is pure comedy.

I'm glad you have been able to find some amusement while tackling this difficult concept. Learning seems easier when you can have a few laughs along the way.

 

[warpus]

Well you know the goverment taxes tips, right?

FredLC is right, there is something very wrong with a system that taxes a assume 15% income you are not legally entitled to receive to begin with.

The tipping system in the west isn't fair for either the employees nor the clients... but that's the way things are..

 

[brainpan]

This conversation is making me grin so hard it's starting to hurt. In Vegas, you can get all kinds of free passes for different services in casinos. These passes typically contain the reminder "does not include gratuity" which is mind-bogglingly obvious to locals. It's finally dawning on me why this reminder is probably important. I have always felt mildly insulted by these kinds of reminders. That seems funny now.