Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
I don't know. Good question. Brennan is the one who said ordering a pizza was legally binding contract in the UK.
Tip the pizza delivery driver!
- Thread starter Bugfatty300
- Start date
I don't know. Good question. Brennan is the one who said ordering a pizza was legally binding contract in the UK.
Some Europeans here find our system flawed. Fine, we're used to your finger wagging.
However when handling servers, consider yourself more of a free market economy then. The free market, at least in theory, is all about impersonal exchang as long as you have goods to sell and I have money to buy them, we can make a deal, regardless of how we feel about each other.
North Americans and Mexico run a gift economy rather than to a market one. Strange you say? Well, when it comes to tipping, who we are and how we feel matters a lot, because a tip is essentially a gift, and we give better gifts to people we like and are attentive than to people who we don't like and aren't attentive.
Tippers aren’t trying to drive hard bargains or maximize their economic interests like Europeans do. We're trying to demonstrate our status and to reciprocate what we see as good behavior. This is, on both sides, may be a more uncertain process than a simple service charge would be. But that uncertainty, that freedom to exercise discretion, to leave as little or as much as you wish—is why tipping has flourished as a part of our culture. (In the same vein, Americans prefer giving charity privately rather than through our government.)
We like the power that the ability to tip gives us. Waiters/bartenders/Bugfattys like tipping because it gives them the chance to distinguish themselves from the crowd and to score an occasional windfall.
It's what we do. I suggest people outside of the US when you visit...check your bill. Chances are someone will try to add the gratuity.
However when handling servers, consider yourself more of a free market economy then. The free market, at least in theory, is all about impersonal exchang as long as you have goods to sell and I have money to buy them, we can make a deal, regardless of how we feel about each other.
North Americans and Mexico run a gift economy rather than to a market one. Strange you say? Well, when it comes to tipping, who we are and how we feel matters a lot, because a tip is essentially a gift, and we give better gifts to people we like and are attentive than to people who we don't like and aren't attentive.
Tippers aren’t trying to drive hard bargains or maximize their economic interests like Europeans do. We're trying to demonstrate our status and to reciprocate what we see as good behavior. This is, on both sides, may be a more uncertain process than a simple service charge would be. But that uncertainty, that freedom to exercise discretion, to leave as little or as much as you wish—is why tipping has flourished as a part of our culture. (In the same vein, Americans prefer giving charity privately rather than through our government.)
We like the power that the ability to tip gives us. Waiters/bartenders/Bugfattys like tipping because it gives them the chance to distinguish themselves from the crowd and to score an occasional windfall.
It's what we do. I suggest people outside of the US when you visit...check your bill. Chances are someone will try to add the gratuity.
Great post, Whomp. In fact, I'm so impressed I'd like to express my satisfaction by extending a 2-dollar gratuity to you. Do you accept PayPal?
Nobody said anything about a free breakfast. You've got to earn your breakfast, and invest it wisely. Then with a well diversified portfolio of ham & cheese omlet, toast, bacon and orange juice - lunch is indeed potentially free. Kinda like the Golden Corral. You go in and pay for a meal... but then you don't leave. You stay all day, and soon enough you have a free meal on your hands. And see that's the message here; STAY in the game. Don't get discouraged. Yes, you understand.
Yes, exactly... boobs to play with. Floundering hormones. High body fat, low muscle, etc. Sounds like fun - and the best part is... you overpaid for it all. In/voluntarily.
You know... I''m a veteran. Everyone should salaute me. Everyone I see, and pass by. I demand it, it's just the 'proper thing'. And now, I'm going to start a thread to pressure everyone to do so, and make everyone that doesn't see it my way... seem like a bad person. Then I'll be really cool, and have the moral high ground.
Nobody said anything about a free breakfast. You've got to earn your breakfast, and invest it wisely. Then with a well diversified portfolio of ham & cheese omlet, toast, bacon and orange juice - lunch is indeed potentially free. Kinda like the Golden Corral. You go in and pay for a meal... but then you don't leave. You stay all day, and soon enough you have a free meal on your hands. And see that's the message here; STAY in the game. Don't get discouraged. Yes, you understand.
What do they eat? MREs and raw meat?
Pizza doesn't have to be delivered and therefore tip isn't necessary. You can pick it up there, eat it there (though it depends if there are waiters), reheat frozen pizza, buy pre-made pizza at a drive-thru, or make it yourself from stratch.
If eating pizza is not being a real man, then I'm a woman. Plus if I eat it frequently with no exercise I can have my own pair of boobs to play with.
Yes, exactly... boobs to play with. Floundering hormones. High body fat, low muscle, etc. Sounds like fun - and the best part is... you overpaid for it all. In/voluntarily.
You know... I''m a veteran. Everyone should salaute me. Everyone I see, and pass by. I demand it, it's just the 'proper thing'. And now, I'm going to start a thread to pressure everyone to do so, and make everyone that doesn't see it my way... seem like a bad person. Then I'll be really cool, and have the moral high ground.
Sorry for digging up a little bit, but I missed yesterday.
$3-5 gas fee? Even on the poor end of the gas mileage spectrum, that's a 6-10mi delivery. Probably $1.75 would cover it as a good median, and even that might be much.
$3-5 maintenance fee per delivery? Maybe $0.25, so call it a $2 even for vehicle/gas costs.
This, of course, doesn't take into account $2 for what I'd call the bare minimum for me to do this job regularly. I'm not going out every day and putting myself through the bs of city driving for less, nor could I live on much less anyway.
So the total delivery charge would go (where I'm at) from $1.25 (which doesn't directly go to me) to $4, perhaps more to cover my normal salary. So say $5.
Well, I guess I'll have to live off of minimum wage then. Ever tried that? Tell me how it is, please?
Well, you're ignoring the fact that there is little risk in cooking, especially since pizza cooks don't use sharpened tools. There's a small chance of minor burns... Not to mention they're almost always immigrants or teenagers who are effectively living under mom and dad still. That's what the market has dictated. They don't need to make $12/hr, because they don't have to pay for much or are used to living off much less or think that $7/hr is a massive salary since in Mexico it's like upper middle class pay.
Pretty much my thoughts. I don't prefer non-tippers, and they can quite piss me off at times due to their ignorance, but then again I can't expect everyone to realize that I lose $5 delivering to them.
Taking it out on the customer, even if they are complete a**holes, as many of ours can be, is unprofessional and immature. If the customer wants to act like a child, fine, but it's something called taking the high road.
The local Indian cafes charge upfront like this, and I LOVE it. I go in and know my $7 lunch is $7. I always wondered why more businesses don't do this, especially considering how much people like even numbers. Trust me, I've seen SO many credit card receipts/checks where they round to the nearest dollar rather than actually calculate a rough 10-15%. Why don't more businesses do this?
Nope, it isn't. Though I suppose they could technically get away with just posting it at the register because the customer could then refuse to complete the purchase.
I still maintain that there's a psychological impact. $6.99 sounding better than $7. Furniture stores selling furniture for $999.99. I wish I knew if it were actually called something, but there must be something behind it. It can't be that prevalent if merchants just felt like having those prices.
Not really, yankee; The reason for these signs is that these administrative orders (speeding, not curbing your dog) are commonly disobeyed, and the means to oversee them are poor, depending on a guard conveniently being there at the moment to see the violation. The signs serves as reminders of places where obedience is critical, but these aren't what exerts the order. Law is. In fact, you have to obey speed limit and curb your dog even where there aren't such signs.
As for taxes, the means for auditory are strong; you have a duty to inform what is owed, and the IRS authority has access to all your related papers should any doubt arises as to the correct amount.Nevertheless, nothing forbids a big sign informing of taxes, and that perhaps would be very informative specially to foreigners, but all obligations which are imposed by law does not necessitate a specific notification, as it is a duty of every person to know all law that is applicable in his area (nobody can pledge not knowing of a legal obligation, however obscure).
Obligations not imposed by law, even if "socially expected", do not share this same status, and ought to be made unquestionably known before you even begin to consider them binding.
Regards.
Good stuff. Might explain those rare times when some archaic law is actually enforced and someone gets bit by it. "I didn't know" isn't an excuse unless you lack the mens rea or something along those lines.
Though, for NYC streets, I do like how the speed limit signs say "Speed Limit 30 Unless Otherwise Posted." Don't know if that works in other areas, since I wasn't particularly observant while riding in a car going 50 or so on a street in a smaller city or out in a rural area.
And finally we hit on the true whining and what this is all about. It's just a manifestation of a bizarre nationalistic-type Euro-pride. This blather is about as useful and intelligent as 20 pages of complaint that people outside Britain tend to drive on the "wrong side of the road."they're fired too then. Maybe I should hire a European, you Yanks are damn lazy.
I'm at a disadvantage here, because I possess no bigotry towards Europeans in general. I tend to like them. I especially like British people. I just can't think of a stupid nonsensical insult to hurl back at your stupid nonsensical insult. :/
Shylock
Hey smiling strange
Did you know that in America the amount of laws you would have to read to have read them all would take at least a human lifetime?
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Want some violins with that?
Fine, I'll stop discussing the tipping-system, I didn't know it was such an important part of your culture it was beyond criticism. Tell me, do I have my list straight?
Things I am not allowed to critique: Free Market (cummunist!), War on Terror (apologist!) and tipping (finger wagger!).
Is that finger wagging I see
I'm jus' asking ... not criticising
Dude, relax, it's not like we are proposing an invasion in the US for the shamefull use of the tipping-system.It's what we do. I suggest people outside of the US when you visit...check your bill. Chances are someone will try to add the gratuity.
*puts violin away*
It's doable.
I guess you missed the part where I suggested to average the tips, and add that to your salary. So you'd make exacly as much as you do now.
One word: So?
Before I get labeled anti-american, I'd like to apologise if I offended anyone while questioning tips. I love America. Uhm, some of my best friends are american.
Look! A zeplin *points*
*runs*
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Less a 'key point of economics' - more a Russian Proverb. Russians are well known for cynicism.
Brainpan: you have brought nothing to this debate apart from calling Europeans (who are merely trying to point out the advantages we see in our system) 'ignorant', 'selfish' & so on. You also don't know a joke when you see one. Stop trolling and learn to discuss.
Besides, people outside Britain do drive on the wrong side of the road. Everyone knows that: you foreigners are most vexing.
Spoiler :
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Eww.. Microwaves make things soggy, especially pizza.
LucyDuke said:
A lot of places already have a delivery charge, though. In some cases it's even as much as $5.
If tipping is meant to pay for the delivery, wouldn't that mean that you shouldn't tip if the place already charged you a delivery charge?
Well.. I don't think so.. I'll tip anyway, even if there was a delivery charge. I'll tip for a job well done - not for the delivery. That's not what tips are for.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Hence us crazed commie Euros pointing out the useful clarity of our (mad mad mad) way of doing things.
Oh, yes, of course. I don't disagree. I'm just saying why can't it be $9.99 including tax then?
Personally, when I see a business doing what those cafes do, it makes me appreciate them more since they're saving me a lot of loose change and aren't out to get every last dime they can by effectively manipulating me into thinking their prices are less. I guess this facet of customer service was forgotten long ago, though...
They even started upping their costs by $0.40, but it was still $7.40, not $7.39 or $7.42 including tax.
Wait, a zeppelin? Where?!
Must be what heaven looks like.
And I'm sure the store would like all $9.99 and have the customer worry about forking over the tax. But that can go round and round, forever.
Why not make it $11 including taxes? But then it'll be $10.99! But then they'll want the whole $10.99! Why not make it $12?.........
Over there! Burning over New Jersey! Oh the humanity!Wait, a zeppelin? Where?!
Seriously, a zeppelin? Where?
Stolen Rutters
Deity
And you get rich by convincing someone else to pay the bill!
And that argument also goes for sales taxes or whatever. They are seen as "hidden cost" (not immediately visible). In my country (and I suppose a lot of the EU) it is illegal to have hidden costs - as a company you must present your customers with the end-price you are willing to make the deal for.
And the customers are obliged to pay at least that price. Unless both parties agree to have a different price the visible price stands.
Easy, clear and simple.
The $9.99 + tax is awkward, but the reason is that the tax part is different in each US state. But since the product is made for the whole US market it is structured that way.
Tipping is stupid from the European point of view, since Europe has different way of looking at things. Organization verses Individual. While organizational way does get you average results, that makes it possible to create a system, where an “average” result is something that is good enough for everybody. In Europe you get paid to deliver picas, know how much you are going to get, but then again you are not invested emotionally in your job. You know what you must do (deliver on time and get paid exact amount) and that’s it. No worrying about whether you will not get paid for your job, just because somebody doesn’t give a crap about how much YOU get paid. Do you give a crap how your customer get paid?
Not to mention all that “If you don’t tip that good that I THINK you should, expect to have ****** in your food next time”. I order picas lots of time ($8 all inclusive) and can’t imagine anyone here would even think or joke about that. The only bad thing I have heard from guys delivering picas (and I do know few of them personally), was the one customer that always called and said “I want pizza with feferony, and make it more hot then the last time”. So they got tired of him one day and made it REALLY hot..
Tipping is stupid from the European point of view, since Europe has different way of looking at things. Organization verses Individual. While organizational way does get you average results, that makes it possible to create a system, where an “average” result is something that is good enough for everybody. In Europe you get paid to deliver picas, know how much you are going to get, but then again you are not invested emotionally in your job. You know what you must do (deliver on time and get paid exact amount) and that’s it. No worrying about whether you will not get paid for your job, just because somebody doesn’t give a crap about how much YOU get paid. Do you give a crap how your customer get paid?
Not to mention all that “If you don’t tip that good that I THINK you should, expect to have ****** in your food next time”. I order picas lots of time ($8 all inclusive) and can’t imagine anyone here would even think or joke about that. The only bad thing I have heard from guys delivering picas (and I do know few of them personally), was the one customer that always called and said “I want pizza with feferony, and make it more hot then the last time”. So they got tired of him one day and made it REALLY hot..
