onedreamer
Dragon
Yeah, it is a mistake to bomb someone who is firing at you. You should let them strike down your plane, after all you still should have your parachute.
Well put and well informed as usual.
U.N. Approves Airstrikes to Halt Attacks by Qaddafi Forces
- Thread starter Incodcito
- Start date
Yeah, it is a mistake to bomb someone who is firing at you. You should let them strike down your plane, after all you still should have your parachute.
Well put and well informed as usual.
MeteorPunch
#WINNING
I really doubt that the rebels fired on some jets, do you have a link stating they did? NATO owns the skies and a fighter should be assumed to be theirs.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
Rebels starting shooting into the air in celebration.
onedreamer
Dragon
Yes I have. No, I won't provide you with it. Why? Because it's everywhere. You like to think that NATO fighters bomb randomly? You like to think they cannot mistake even in good faith? Welcome. It's called freedom of thought. I don't want to spend words on convincing people how good are UN and NATO, because I don't think so. But I certainly notice that most those who oppose the current actions in Libya do it by firing random criticism. The irony...
MeteorPunch
#WINNING
Okay, here's a longer response.
The info is everywhere? The only reason I asked you to link it was because I couldn't find it...all the articles I've looked at simply state that it occurred and zero info about why and how.
Personally, whether it's a mistake or not, this incident is absurdly ironic. Our reason for war - that Gaddafi killed civilians, something that I've not seen any real evidence of, is now being committed by NATO forces, just like we do on a monthly basis in Iraq and Afgainistan. There are now over 100,000 civilian deaths in Iraq - many caused by American forces. Where is the coalition against us? Where are the war crimes? Where is the justice? The hypocrisy is sickening.
We are not involved in Yemen, or the Ivory Coast, or many other places having much worse civilian deaths - and I applaud that, yet, Libya needs a coalition of the entire west? Please leaders, just have the balls to say, "We hate Gaddafi and we want to get rid of him, now would be a decent time." At least be honest about your power-tripping and world domination.
If we would've never meddled, Gaddafi would have won by now and things would be fine. Instead there will be much more death and military spending to cause it.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
Yep. Except for the the people involved in the rebellion. Oh and their families. I imagine it will take a few weeks or months to fill all those mass graves.
But yeah once that nasty little business is over then everything will be just fine and dandy.
MeteorPunch
#WINNING
Maybe they should stop trying to overthrow the government? They won't die if they put down their weapons.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
Of course they won't die immediately. Mass graves need to be nice and deep and it will take a while to dig them. Plus kangaroo courts still have to be organized, extra executioners recruited, etc.
Ah, the luxury of commenting on far-away political strife secure in own's liberty and safety.
MeteorPunch
#WINNING
Are you two seriously saying that if the rebels never existed and took up arms, in essence, challenging the government to get rid of them that they would be executed?
No, but I applaud the rebels for being brave enough to try.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
Sorry but that is not what you said:
Nowhere did you imply a scenario where the uprising didn't exist.
Please be more consistent.
And even so what what kind of argument is that anyway? The rebellion happened. You can't undo it. It is fact. Nothing can change it. People are going to die.
MeteorPunch
#WINNING
I just created that scenario because you created one. I took this post of yours to imply a fantasy scenario where Gaddafi goes berserk and murders a bunch of people:
So I introduced another scenario by which all of this could have been avoided by the rebels not gaining a deathwish and trying to overthrow the government. In the overall scheme of things, who started this mess matters.
However, the way I worded things was completely bad, I'll admit. Kinda doing 2 things at once and got some wires crossed.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
- Messages
- 15,087
Do you know how many military coups and rebellions Libya has been trough just in the last 40 years? Do you know how many people were actually killed in those? Do you have any evidence that the claims that this time some large massacre was about to happen were true?
Er, no - in the modern era was has moved off nice clean battlefields in the middle of god-knows-where and into people's streets and houses. At Waterloo, all of the few civilians in the area had duly cleared out; during the battle for Stalingrad the city was very much alive while the Germans and Russians were fighting over it. In other words, as I am prone to saying on this forum:
WRONG; NEXT!
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
In what war? Seriously, I want an example for this one. Because, historically, modern wars dont suffer the extent of famine, pestilence, disease, and other factors that killed windrows of civilians in wars past.
Well, civilians got the ass end of the stick early on in the history of warfare, too. The Waterloo example isn't exactly representative of the interaction between civilians and the armed representatives of the state in the relevant time period. I mean, you got crap like the destruction of the Palatinate or the peoples' wars in Spain or the Tirol. Sure, sometimes you'd have a nice clean battlefield, but sometimes you'd end up smashing your way through a quite populated city like at Leipzig. Kinda like how these days you have your 73 Eastings, yeah, and then you got your Fallujahs.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
But Dachs, even in Fallujah, the locals were given weeks to evacuate the city. Imagine what would have happened if we had just rolled in without any notice at all.....
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
Rebellions of this scale? I'm gonna guess ZERO (0.00)
Of course not. Plane tickets are very expensive not to mention it is too dangerous to go to Libya to gather evidence for you. It's just my opinion. Don't like it? Too bad.
