UAW Strike

[skadistic]

Wal-Mart is already at the low end, so it wouldn't be a $2 across the board raise in the industry. Plus you have to discount the non-union employees plus other cost cutting Wal-Mart could do with its bloated management team in Bentonville. Plus, you have all of those millions of people making more money, putting more money into the economy, and thus creating jobs outside of the big box sector. Sort of like trickle down voodoo except from the wage serf end. Sure there would be inflationary pressure, but the American economy thrived enough to remain an economic superpower when the unions were more prevalent than they are today, so I think you paint a overly pessimistic picture about the potential downsides to the stingiest retailer being unionized.

Wal*mart isn't the low end and when one sector of an industry gets a wage increase it spreads out to the entire industry.

Overly pessimistic? You said your self there would be inflationary pressure. So yes inflation. As things get more expensive other things get more expensive. And it all goes up. And the number of non-union workers in Wal*mart would be small.

so what? the union is looking out for itself, as it should. I fault GM for putting up with them, not the union for doing what unions do. You obviously havent grasped the concept that unions are these idealistic institutions that are supposed to be altruistic and beneficial to everyone in the economy. Where did you get this idea that unions are supposed to be this idealistic?

What? Clean up your contradictions so I can reply.

 

[mrt144]

he isnt being pessimistic, hes saying the union is wrong for what it does. which is maximize its dues base and try get as much for its members as possible. they live and die by their decisions and how hard they push the company.

i cant believe he isnt pissed at gm for putting up with it. if i were gm and if uaw was causing me all these headaches id bite the bullet and tell em to kick rocks. gm lacks a backbone and i find greater fault with them for failing to deliver profits then i do for the union suceeding in getting member benefits

 

[Traitorfish]

Thats so nice of you to do the math JR. But that just theoretically covers dues. At an $8 hour average now the union will will want more. So what would a 2 dollar an hour increase come out to? Now do the math for all the people who will get raises to compete with Wal*mart. Target, Costco, Boscov, K-mart, Cmart, and the rest.

Quick point- I work part-time at Asda, a British supermarket owned byWalmart, and we get paid £5.81 ($11.72) and hour- more than the employees of most rival supermarkers - yet both Asda and the economy are doing fine. How does that fit in with your assertions?

 

[mrt144]

Wal*mart isn't the low end and when one sector of an industry gets a wage increase it spreads out to the entire industry.

Overly pessimistic? You said your self there would be inflationary pressure. So yes inflation. As things get more expensive other things get more expensive. And it all goes up. And the number of non-union workers in Wal*mart would be small.


What? Clean up your contradictions so I can reply.

the are was supposed to be aren't, twas a typo.

 

[JollyRoger]

i cant believe he isnt pissed at gm for putting up with it. if i were gm and if uaw was causing me all these headaches id bite the bullet and tell em to kick rocks. gm lacks a backbone and i find greater fault with them for failing to deliver profits then i do for the union suceeding in getting member benefits

All those six and seven and eight figure comepensation packages being paid to GM management are obviously going to waste if they are managing the situation so poorly.

 

[skadistic]

he isnt being pessimistic, hes saying the union is wrong for what it does. which is maximize its dues base and try get as much for its members as possible. they live and die by their decisions and how hard they push the company.

i cant believe he isnt pissed at gm for putting up with it. if i were gm and if uaw was causing me all these headaches id bite the bullet and tell em to kick rocks. gm lacks a backbone and i find greater fault with them for failing to deliver profits then i do for the union suceeding in getting member benefits

Show me where I said I wasn't pissed at GM. You find greater fault in GM for not delivering profits but GM can't deliver profits because the UAW is crushing it with demands. And the union is wrong for what its doing. It demands more then GM can deliver and it uses strikes to strong arm. If they really cared about the members they would take cuts to help relieve GM's cost burden ( but on them by the union it self) to ensure future job security. As it is now UAW is on its way to eliminating the jobs they are supposed to be protecting. What good is a union when your members no longer have jobs?

Unions started out as idealistic in a quest to get fair pay and safe working conditions. They aren't anymore. Now they are corrupt bloated and in it for them selves and not for their members. They cling on to power like every other other power hungry entity in the history of man. They are out dated and obsolete. I wouldn't have a problem with unions if they were fair and honest. But they aren't. They are just communism and like every other commy setup they have become corrupt and care more about the bosses keeping power then the members keeping jobs.

 

[skadistic]

Quick point- I work part-time at Asda, a British supermarket owned byWalmart, and we get paid £5.81 ($11.72) and hour- more than the employees of most rival supermarkers - yet both Asda and the economy are doing fine. How does that fit in with your assertions?

I don't know. I'm not versed in GB economics. Is Asda the largest private employer in GB?

 

[mrt144]

Show me where I said I wasn't pissed at GM. You find greater fault in GM for not delivering profits but GM can't deliver profits because the UAW is crushing it with demands. And the union is wrong for what its doing. It demands more then GM can deliver and it uses strikes to strong arm. If they really cared about the members they would take cuts to help relieve GM's cost burden ( but on them by the union it self) to ensure future job security. As it is now UAW is on its way to eliminating the jobs they are supposed to be protecting. What good is a union when your members no longer have jobs?

Unions started out as idealistic in a quest to get fair pay and safe working conditions. They aren't anymore. Now they are corrupt bloated and in it for them selves and not for their members. They cling on to power like every other other power hungry entity in the history of man. They are out dated and obsolete. I wouldn't have a problem with unions if they were fair and honest. But they aren't. They are just communism and like every other commy setup they have become corrupt and care more about the bosses keeping power then the members keeping jobs.

It makes demands greater than what GM can give and then they negotiate. They sacrifice jobs to keep the level of pay for current members. this isnt a one sided affair where, the union gets everything they want, or GM does.

GM are bigger fools for trying to bargain with a guy drilling a hole in the boat than the guy drilling the hole. You take the drill away if you are GM. but GM doesnt have the backbone.

I dont get why you hold unions to some standard that you don't apply to anything else in the business world. Do you kick companies that make bad business decisions around like you do a union?

 

[Shylock]

Yay! Let's rock the boat even more when manufacturing jobs are already leaving in droves.

This cannot backfire in any possible way.

 

[mrt144]

Yay! Let's rock the boat even more when manufacturing jobs are already leaving in droves.

This cannot backfire in any possible way.

it is at the union's peril that they make the demands they do. as it should be.

 

[skadistic]

It makes demands greater than what GM can give and then they negotiate. They sacrifice jobs to keep the level of pay for current members. this isnt a one sided affair where, the union gets everything they want, or GM does.

GM are bigger fools for trying to bargain with a guy drilling a hole in the boat than the guy drilling the hole. You take the drill away if you are GM. but GM doesnt have the backbone.

I dont get why you hold unions to some standard that you don't apply to anything else in the business world. Do you kick companies that make bad business decisions around like you do a union?

Yes I do. Again show me where I said other aspects of business aren't held to the same standards.

 

[mrt144]

Yes I do. Again show me where I said other aspects of business aren't held to the same standards.

because you're just harping on unions right now. you direct all your ire towards unions and not people that enable them to continue. it's a cop out to blame unions for the woes at GM because GM never did anything about unions for years and years.

 

[skadistic]

because you're just harping on unions right now. you direct all your ire towards unions and not people that enable them to continue. it's a cop out to blame unions for the woes at GM because GM never did anything about unions for years and years.

Well this is a thread about unions......... GM can't do much against the union. Not only does it control the assembly lines but it also controls the supply and distribution of parts. Its not a cop out to blame unions for GM's woes. Do you blame the person getting black mailed for getting black mailed? I don't think you fully understand the situation and what it is the union uses in its strong arm tactics. $51b isn't chump change. But its either pay up or lose hundreds of billions in lost productivity. The only way for GM to fully rid itself of the union is for it to go completely bankrupt, liquidate its assets and start over.

 

[JollyRoger]

The only way for GM to fully rid itself of the union is for it to go completely bankrupt, liquidate its assets and start over.

I'm sure the shareholders would appreciate that.

 

[mrt144]

Well this is a thread about unions......... GM can't do much against the union. Not only does it control the assembly lines but it also controls the supply and distribution of parts. Its not a cop out to blame unions for GM's woes. Do you blame the person getting black mailed for getting black mailed? I don't think you fully understand the situation and what it is the union uses in its strong arm tactics. $51b isn't chump change. But its either pay up or lose hundreds of billions in lost productivity. The only way for GM to fully rid itself of the union is for it to go completely bankrupt, liquidate its assets and start over.

again, how is it the union's fault for using "strong arm tactics" if they are effective in getting what they want? the business world isn't an old gentleman's club and buddy buddy. it's cutthroat and GM wont take the knife away that's doing it. and I dont blame the union for it one bit. the union is out for theirs, GM is out for theirs, and they have to work together or otherwise they all go tits up.

 

[skadistic]

again, how is it the union's fault for using "strong arm tactics" if they are effective in getting what they want? the business world isn't an old gentleman's club and buddy buddy. it's cutthroat and GM wont take the knife away that's doing it. and I dont blame the union for it one bit. the union is out for theirs, GM is out for theirs, and they have to work together or otherwise they all go tits up.

Its the unions fault for using strong arm tactics because they are the ones using strong arm tactics. Are you ok with other forms of extortion and black mail?

 

[mrt144]

Its the unions fault for using strong arm tactics because they are the ones using strong arm tactics. Are you ok with other forms of extortion and black mail?

you don't think GM engages in this towards the union? like, "if you don't accept this deal we will not create more job growth in the US?"

you don't think anti-union companies engage in strong arm anti-union tactics. its the way the game is played. i enjoy watching the game. I accept that both parties need ot negotiate and one might have an advantage. so what? GM made the mistake of sticking to unions. are all unions bad? maybe, but why should I tell other people they can't form a union. also why should a person be forced to join a union if they dont want to? either way it's not my call to make.

 

[skadistic]

you don't think GM engages in this towards the union? like, "if you don't accept this deal we will not create more job growth in the US?"

you don't think anti-union companies engage in strong arm anti-union tactics. its the way the game is played. i enjoy watching the game. I accept that both parties need ot negotiate and one might have an advantage. so what? GM made the mistake of sticking to unions.

And what are these anti-union companies and their strong arm anti-union tactics? And GM is actually saying we can't afford your demands so we have to move jobs out of the country.

 

[mrt144]

And what are these anti-union companies and their strong arm anti-union tactics? And GM is actually saying we can't afford your demands so we have to move jobs out of the country.

thats a strong arm tactic. you either change your demands or we move jobs out of the country. its extortion. you do this or we will hurt you. you honestly don't think GM uses that as a bargaining chip?

also with walmart you don't think they use strong arm anti-union tactics? remember how they shut down an entire store because it unionized in canada?

 

[mrt144]

also look at this from the perspective of the union;

GM is already going to move jobs overseas, we already are going to lose membership, why not make life as good as possible now while we still have jobs