UAW Strike

[skadistic]

What does that have to do with anything? I'm sure they're not striking for health benefits...

I was pointing out how bad unions are.

...and if they got healthcare from the government, you could tell them to write thier congressman, and offer them a fair wage for both of you.

But then I don't have a choice in what kind of coverage to offer. And I as some one with no insurance by choice would be denied the choice to not have any. I'd rather not pay for it for my self either out of pocket or out of taxes. As it is now I'n forced by law to give it to my workers. I'd rather just pay them more and let them chose what plans to take. I have one guy who is covered by his wife's but under law I can't take the money I pay every month for his insurance and just pay him. Choices are good.

 

[Godwynn]

I was pointing out how bad unions are.

I know this firsthand.

UFCW

 

[skadistic]

I know this firsthand.

UFCW

IBEW and IUPAT.

 

[Whomp]

Unions in other countries seem to be less confrontional relationship between management and the unions. In the US, all you have to do to find a bad business model in the past and you'll find unions (auto, airline and steel).

Part of this deal is guaranteeing jobs in the area for things like GM's electric hybrid.

 

[Japanrocks12]

73,000 workers walk in nationwide GM strike

CNN



Here's the plan, tell the workers if they do not show up for work tomorrow they will have forfeited their jobs. Then, for the ultimate payback, hire immigrants from Mexico at minimum wage.

a bit extreme. tell them that their jobs are forfeit and that negotiation for better conditions is to be done in a civilized manner

 

[JollyRoger]

All you wannabe union busters need to apply for executive management positions at GM. Obviously you know better than they do on this one as they are still negotiating with the UAW and not taking any of the wise actions you are suggesting.

 

[skadistic]

All you wannabe union busters need to apply for executive management positions at GM. Obviously you know better than they do on this one as they are still negotiating with the UAW and not taking any of the wise actions you are suggesting.

Because GM is unwilling to take the plunge in the deep end to really fix things. Its kinda hard to bite the bullet when the onion has your jaw wired shut. The UAW doesn't just represent the line workers in final assembly plants but the they control the supply side too. GM can swap out all the line workers for "scabs" but then the UAW can stop production at the brake manufacturing line. GM could shut down now and restart in 09 with new suppliers and workers getting fair wages. That would take balls GM execs just don't have.

 

[Merkinball]

I suppose that a big problem witht eh amount of money spent per person by GM has to do with health costs, given the good benefits they receive. Just another little side benefit of national socialized medicine - Che

Who do you think is going to pay for nationalized medicine? Let's say, not low income or middle class people. Not small businesses. Oh, who's left picking up the ENTIRE FRIGGIN BURDEN of healthcare. Rich people and big multinational corporations like General Motors. If anything, General Motors burden to healthcare will go up, not down.

 

[Cu Chulainn]

The thing is that the majority of the workers don't want to strike. They voted about a month ago to authorize a strike should it become necessary then the negotiators decided it was necessary today and most of the workers disagreed but at that point they'd already signed the decision away and there was nothing they could do.

In many ways its very similar to congress authorizing Bush to go into Iraq. In fact its a nearly perfect metaphor.

 

[Che Guava]

I was pointing out how bad unions are.

Ahhh...

But then I don't have a choice in what kind of coverage to offer. And I as some one with no insurance by choice would be denied the choice to not have any. I'd rather not pay for it for my self either out of pocket or out of taxes. As it is now I'n forced by law to give it to my workers. I'd rather just pay them more and let them chose what plans to take. I have one guy who is covered by his wife's but under law I can't take the money I pay every month for his insurance and just pay him. Choices are good.

I guess there is a lot to be said for choice. Right now, I choose to be in a country where my government takes care of my health bill.

Who do you think is going to pay for nationalized medicine? Let's say, not low income or middle class people. Not small businesses. Oh, who's left picking up the ENTIRE FRIGGIN BURDEN of healthcare. Rich people and big multinational corporations like General Motors. If anything, General Motors burden to healthcare will go up, not down.

If you pay personal or business incomes taxes in Canada, you are paying for healthcare. Simple as that.

And by the way, Ontario as it stands right now has lower manufacturing corporate taxes than most neighbouring states in the US:

..and thier health benefits for workers are covered by the provincial government. Entire friggin burden indeed.

The thing is that the majority of the workers don't want to strike. They voted about a month ago to authorize a strike should it become necessary then the negotiators decided it was necessary today and most of the workers disagreed but at that point they'd already signed the decision away and there was nothing they could do.

Ah, so there is voting involved! I thought that that was a little odd...

 

[innonimatu]

GM rallied $3.22, or 9.4 percent, to $37.64 for the top gain in the Dow average. The four-year accord may transform the competitive landscape for the U.S. auto industry, allowing the company to operate with a cost structure closer to that of its Japanese rivals. Should the deal be approved by GM workers, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC will seek similar cost-cutting UAW contracts.

And suddenly the bad union and the good corporation struck a deal and everyone is happy ever after... ahh, like a modern day fairy tale...

 

[Godwynn]

And suddenly the bad union and the good corporation struck a deal and everyone is happy ever after... ahh, like a modern day fairy tale...

Imagine the stock and earnings if the workers were not making $2,000 a week.

That's okay, I hope they will keep getting better and better wages and benefits, they are only strangling themselves.

 

[skadistic]

Imagine the stock and earnings if the workers were not making $2,000 a week.

That's okay, I hope they will keep getting better and better wages and benefits, they are only strangling themselves.

Thats mighty fine pay for screwing the same screw over and over with the aid of robotic assistance.

 

[Godwynn]

Thats mighty fine pay for screwing the same screw over and over with the aid of robotic assistance.

Yep, it was reported on CNBC that the $200/week is 10% of the regular pay.

No wonder GM is losing market share. When they have to file for bankruptcy protection and lay off workers I bet the union members will say it was corporate greed!

 

[skadistic]

Yep, it was reported on CNBC that the $200/week is 10% of the regular pay.

No wonder GM is losing market share. When they have to file for bankruptcy protection and lay off workers I bet the union members will say it was corporate greed!

They will blame the $10m dollar CEO pay and gloss over the $51B in healthcare payments ( most for people who don't work for GM anymore ) or the hundreds of millions for job banks to pay people who........wait for it ........ aren't working! Thats right the UAW makes sure its members are getting paid for not working.

 

[JollyRoger]

Imagine the stock and earnings if the workers were not making $2,000 a week.

That's okay, I hope they will keep getting better and better wages and benefits, they are only strangling themselves.

Imagine the stocks and earnings if the management team members were merely making $2,000 a week.

 

[Godwynn]

Imagine the stocks and earnings if the management team members were merely making $2,000 a week.

I also agree with this statement. However, more responsibility and criticism is placed on the shoulders of management, than the line worker.

 

[mrt144]

dude, i cant believe anyone is criticizing the union. this is what they are supposed do; Get their members paid!

look, they are essentially a corporation that sells labor. i dont see any of you anti union types saying that corporations have an obligation to benefit anyone but themselves and shareholders. unions dont have an obligation to benefit anyone but themselves and union members.

unions live and die by their decisions. and sure they make bad decisions but why do you care? GM and UAW are meant for one another!

This is why i like toyota though. They didnt go the union route, but they also don't screw with their labor force, and they havent provided enough incentive for employees to create a union, or risk it.

 

[Serutan]

a bit extreme. tell them that their jobs are forfeit and that negotiation for better conditions is to be done in a civilized manner

Except that in many states, it's illegal for them to do so. In a "closed shop"
state (such as Michigan), if you work at a company with a union, you must join the union, and IIRC the company can't replace the strikers. Ever.
So they have to negotiate.

 

[Verbose]

They will blame the $10m dollar CEO pay and gloss over the $51B in healthcare payments ( most for people who don't work for GM anymore ) or the hundreds of millions for job banks to pay people who........wait for it ........ aren't working! Thats right the UAW makes sure its members are getting paid for not working.

So, how would GM would be doing if the US had a nationalised tax-funded health-care system sparing them these burdens?

Why was this kind of system implemented in the first place? When did healthcare become a concern for corporate US? It's not in most other parts of the world.