UFOs

[Samson]

the Earth has a wealth of different minerals asteroids may not have

Which ones? I guess you mean the organic ones. The best reason for the ET's to be here is farming us, for reasons so I guess this ties in.

 

[Kyriakos]

If humans are an ET experiment, it is not at all cost-effective. Unless high intelligence is actually a relatively useless byproduct of what is studied. Still, who would leave apes and other stuff around, for the experiment to reflect upon and form theories? Seems awfully disorganized, with shades of third-world ET; the first-world ET created something of use which is on display at the cosmic science fair, but the third-world ET had its pitiful invention thrown to some outer ring of a quarantined galaxy.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Speaking of ET... waaaay back over 30 years ago, I was riding the regular transit through one of the subdivisions here in the winter, and saw that someone had made ET out of snow. They did a good job, and I think it was up for about a week before it started melting.

 

[r16]

day's drone outrage is from February . Someplace called Tucson , close to the Mexican border or whatever . Border Police or whatever helicopter spots one ; only a green light underneath , the body can not be seen with night vision goggles and it keeps away from the nose where there should honking big cameras ? Blog pushing Pentagon lies , you should do some dot connecting . Within 5 miles there is an airbase where pilots are trained by a computer simulation / game you like yourself can buy . The company that did the game is Russian , one of the developers was thrown out of US for his attempt to buy an F-16 flight manual ... And some Pentagon picture from which you can learn drones can spy electronically ... See , they are after pilots playing for combat readiness ? Also accuses aliens of smuggling drugs , like maybe . Once again it is about battery power , like too high , like too fast but not outlandish when compared to top of the line equipment available if you have the cash . Am impressed nobody has claimed the fence to nearby aircraft "cemetery" had been cut and F-16 spares were being stolen . And no mention of "Black Helicopters" which were proudly announced hunting for the Rocketeer of LA ...

was confused by the third world ET stuff , considering maybe this was a rant about the Poles purchasing New Turkey drones in return for 400 million dollars , then figured it had to be aliens somehow . So , here is the novel people should write .

already has a Trek relevance , too . Some Marvel comics from the 80s , a planet of apes and whatnot where some ancient aliens have fitted apes with chips for some reason and ape babies are fitted with chips when they are big enough . And the Klingons want to destroy the facility , ı think , to make that civ apes again so that they can colonize the planet , must be during the peace deal forced on by superbeings .

so , some Howard Spaceduck discovered a planet of apes and chipped them all , curtailing the evolution of the species ... Who then sued Howard Spaceduck and as a proof have done humans ; if they had not been interrupted in a million years they would have the faces to appear on the cover of Vogue . Here , some scene of careful observation and recording , they will have compensation so great that Howard will even lose his Playduck magazines

____

____

 

[Kyriakos]

That ape looks terrible

 

[Terxpahseyton]

.....

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I am not an UFO enthusiast, never have been, but from what I have gathered so far there are numerous observations out there which can not be denied, chucked up to weather phenomena, or new secret teach, easily, and make the alien UFO scenario on a first look not unlikely, IMO.

The way those things move seems plainly not within our tech capabilities.

And such sightings date decades back. I believe some of the most credible and interesting ones come from Iran, an the Iranian air force did try to shoot them down (it was near a nuclear facility). But apparently, the moment they tried to get a lock, their instruments failed. And the pilots saw a lot more than spheres of light. They saw weird propulsion clouds etc.

And given all that, I find the arrogant way some want to dismiss all of this not a testimony to their superior intellect, but to their wish to be superior.
The first modern doctor who wanted other doctors to wash their hands eventually was forced into an asylum. Arrogance is an easy trap to step into, just saying.

Now assuming those are aliens, it is a fair assumption that they may have been around also before. Whatever that means

The problem is evidence. Carl Sagan said the only evidence that would convince him was something that could not be manufactured on Earth, with human knowledge/technology.

I don't find that an unreasonable stance. And I'm a science fiction fan who's been reading this stuff for over 45 years.

 

[Sofista]

The problem is evidence. Carl Sagan said the only evidence that would convince him was something that could not be manufactured on Earth, with human knowledge/technology.

I don't find that an unreasonable stance. And I'm a science fiction fan who's been reading this stuff for over 45 years.

On principle, yes. But Sagan lived in a world where present-day CGI was more or less unthinkable.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

On principle, yes. But Sagan lived in a world where present-day CGI was more or less unthinkable.

The effects used in the original Cosmos series weren't bad.

And he was referring to physical objects, not videos or images that would be easy to fake.

 

[Sofista]

That's fair. However, on our planet air travel is statistically the safest way to travel - it would seem likely that spacefaring civilizations would be advanced enough that the chance of them leaving behind that sort of evidence seems unlikely at best.

Trying to come up with a good similitude here: it's like the Higgs Boson. For decades scientists suspected it was there, not thanks to evidence, but because it filled a gap, and only sufficient advance could make it possible to be demonstrated. And with this I mean, if we're expecting to see an abandoned flying saucer in our back yard, we might be expecting too much.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

That's fair. However, on our planet air travel is statistically the safest way to travel - it would seem likely that spacefaring civilizations would be advanced enough that the chance of them leaving behind that sort of evidence seems unlikely at best.

Not a fan of Star Trek: The Original Series? Dr. McCoy was extremely careless on a couple of occasions. In one episode, "City on the Edge of Forever", they went back in time to 1930, and somebody got hold of McCoy's phaser. He had no idea what it was, and accidentally vaporized himself. In another episode, "A Piece of the Action", McCoy accidentally forgot his communicator on the planet - in a society based on the Chicago Mobs of the 1920s. There was never an official sequel to this episode, but plenty of fanfic stories showing how the Iotians took apart the communicator, did some reverse-engineering, and eventually found a way to get off-planet and go looking for Kirk.

So it is possible to leave something behind by accident, or have it stolen. But that's Star Trek, which operates according to the needs of plot and studio executive interference.

In real life, an alien artifact that could not have been manufactured on Earth/by humans is what Sagan said would be the least it would take to convince him.

As for whether or not aliens have been, or could be, as careless as McCoy... so far there isn't any evidence, and I'm not fond of conspiracy theories.

 

[Sofista]

Not a fan of Star Trek: The Original Series? Dr. McCoy was extremely careless on a couple of occasions. In one episode, "City on the Edge of Forever", they went back in time to 1930, and somebody got hold of McCoy's phaser. He had no idea what it was, and accidentally vaporized himself. In another episode, "A Piece of the Action", McCoy accidentally forgot his communicator on the planet - in a society based on the Chicago Mobs of the 1920s. There was never an official sequel to this episode, but plenty of fanfic stories showing how the Iotians took apart the communicator, did some reverse-engineering, and eventually found a way to get off-planet and go looking for Kirk.

So it is possible to leave something behind by accident, or have it stolen. But that's Star Trek, which operates according to the needs of plot and studio executive interference.

In real life, an alien artifact that could not have been manufactured on Earth/by humans is what Sagan said would be the least it would take to convince him.

As for whether or not aliens have been, or could be, as careless as McCoy... so far there isn't any evidence, and I'm not fond of conspiracy theories.

I'm a fan, and remember that timeless classic well. Kudos to Harlan Ellison for injecting humor in an absolutely serious episode. But as you pointed out, that's entirely the writer's choice.

Consider: if a sufficiently more advanced species wanted to keep tabs on us - let's say, like the Vorlons from Babylon 5 -, would they send field teams or simply intercept our own satellite system?

 

[AdamCrock]

Personally I think it's a German technology. Von Braun (from "Paper Clip" - a high ranking SS officer) has always "preferred" rocket propulsion over the "oh so very laughed at and ridiculed" anti-gravity propulsion. Just personally I think it's true - we can gain access to seamless unlimited energy potential but it is barred by dogmatic science - no self respecting honest to god scientist would dare even venture beyond "The University" way of thinking - that is the obstacle - instead we are having yet more RAM, faster computing power, and an entirely new look to Your I-phone :/ - instead of real progress.

 

[Berzerker]

For anyone complaining about ancient aliens, you need to understand the duped have been waiting decades for this. The skeptics kept asking for proof, this is it. We're looking at the tip of the iceberg. The guy in charge of the program said they have physical material. Ty Harry Reid, apparently he snuck the program into a bill a dozen years ago and told the Pentagon to comply. Course the rest of the world will be shocked to learn about people from the sky.

You realize that any lifeform that breathes gold is not likely to be comfortable on Earth at the time when humans exist, right? And don't move the goalposts to say these aliens created humans. All mammals breathe in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide.

I dont think it was for breathing, we need ozone in our atmosphere but not in our lungs. I've been arguing they created humans all along so where were the goalposts? Mammals breathe oxygen because a long time ago tiny critters began 'exhaling' oxygen causing probably the world's first mass extinction. Oxygen was poisonous to most other life forms and they died when life became a beach - sun and fun and water and tides. Plate tectonics built land and eventually those tiny critters became sun worshipers.

Now here's the interesting part, if these aliens exist pretty much as our ancestors described and Sitchin is right they come from a planet in our solar system, the planet that collided with the proto-Earth ~4 bya, then both planets were not only 'infected' with life but both produced hominids under very different conditions. Frankly thats one of Sitchin's weaker arguments, I'd sooner believe they came from a planet within another star's goldilocks zone.

Otoh if a collision with another planet delivered or created life here I'd expect life to be on that other world. I just have a problem believing a planet on such an elliptical orbit with only a few years out of thousands near the sun each time around could produce hominids. But maybe thats the significance of the lotus, a flower with petals resembling a planetary orbit cycling thru its 'great year'.

And I do know that starting a religion and making it successful means the money will be pouring in if you can fleece enough people on a consistent basis. What a pity I'm an atheist with the ethics not to do anything like this. I could have been rich.

Have you ever seen Sitchin? He devoted himself to this as a child in school over the meaning of Nephilim. He never struck me as greedy or unethical.

Remember that we live in a world where a failed science fiction writer managed to found a "religion" and got plenty of wealthy fools to join it!
You think Trump was trolling running for president, he had nothing on that one!

Perhaps this one did that bad SF for the laughs? Or to troll someone who said no one would believe that stuff?

There is another option - billions of people over thousands of years are right and you are wrong.

@Birdjaguar Remember our discussion about the Fremont rock art at 9 Mile Canyon? I did a little research on what anthropologists and nearby Ute Indians think about it. They offered 2 explanations - a hunting scene and a battle. I think the latter was the Ute perspective. The central horned being was the enemy chief, the horns mean strength and not necessarily divinity, and all the sheep were his warriors. If you look closely there is a line connecting all the sheep to the central horned being thereby indicating subordination of some kind.

I noticed something else just now. If this is a battle scene why aren't the warriors with bows and arrows shooting at the large sheep in the upper row? The warriors are shooting at the horned 'chief' and the smaller sheep below. The battle is not with the sheep in the upper row on either side of the chief. I do agree with the Ute interpretation its a battle of some sort, but I think its a celestial battle between worlds and on one side are 4-6 archers and the other the proto Earth with 20+ smaller satellites. Where is the Moon? It should be there on the panel.

In the Enuma Elish Tiamat is described as the mother of all the gods other than Marduk (the Sun/Apsu being the father). In the Fremont panel the line connecting all the sheep to the central horned deity may be depicting the same relationship. If this Fremont panel does represent their creation story and it matches up with the Mesopotamian Enuma Elish, I'd consider that evidence of pre-Columbian contact.

The level of detail suggests these cosmologies share a more recent origin and not 20,000 years of phone tag. Tower of Babel? A recent dispersion of people from the Middle East following the great meltdown because "God" didn't want us building a tower to visit heaven. Their DNA may have been lost to us but not their stories.

 

[Berzerker]

Which ones? I guess you mean the organic ones. The best reason for the ET's to be here is farming us, for reasons so I guess this ties in.

That would be one good reason, if you're mining the inner solar system for a planet that spends little time in the vicinity the Earth would be a good source for food. God's Garden.

If humans are an ET experiment, it is not at all cost-effective. Unless high intelligence is actually a relatively useless byproduct of what is studied. Still, who would leave apes and other stuff around, for the experiment to reflect upon and form theories? Seems awfully disorganized, with shades of third-world ET; the first-world ET created something of use which is on display at the cosmic science fair, but the third-world ET had its pitiful invention through to some outer ring of a quarantined galaxy.

A Zulu myth about creation says their ancestors - called the artificial ones - would go to war with the apemen when the war star rose. That could be a reference to Nibiru/Marduk approaching the sun every 3600 years.

Sitchin believes the Sumerian 'sar' was based on the orbital period of the planet of 'God'. The word would end up as caesar and czar and could have caused a problem for the biblical authors, the days of man before the Flood were numbered 120 years.

This is how Sitchin arrived at 432,000 years for the arrival of these gods. The 120 refers to sars, not our years. Thats why various lists claim extraordinarily long reigns for antidiluvian kings. It was 144,000 years after their arrival the lower gods got fed up and Enki sought to make a primitive worker. The first were hybrids but eventually we were made, thats why God's 'curse' on Eve in the Garden was increased pain in childbirth.

That's fair. However, on our planet air travel is statistically the safest way to travel - it would seem likely that spacefaring civilizations would be advanced enough that the chance of them leaving behind that sort of evidence seems unlikely at best.

Trying to come up with a good similitude here: it's like the Higgs Boson. For decades scientists suspected it was there, not thanks to evidence, but because it filled a gap, and only sufficient advance could make it possible to be demonstrated. And with this I mean, if we're expecting to see an abandoned flying saucer in our back yard, we might be expecting too much.

Cargo cults on a worldwide basis

 

[Valka D'Ur]

For anyone complaining about ancient aliens, you need to understand the duped have been waiting decades for this. The skeptics kept asking for proof, this is it. We're looking at the tip of the iceberg. The guy in charge of the program said they have physical material. Ty Harry Reid, apparently he snuck the program into a bill a dozen years ago and told the Pentagon to comply. Course the rest of the world will be shocked to learn about people from the sky.

Uh-huh. Whatever.

I dont think it was for breathing, we need ozone in our atmosphere but not in our lungs. I've been arguing they created humans all along so where were the goalposts? Mammals breathe oxygen because a long time ago tiny critters began 'exhaling' oxygen causing probably the world's first mass extinction. Oxygen was poisonous to most other life forms and they died when life became a beach - sun and fun and water and tides. Plate tectonics built land and eventually those tiny critters became sun worshipers.

Ozone is what happens when three oxygen molecules get together to make O₃.

I just looked up the list of chemicals in the atmosphere. Gold isn't one of them, but I didn't expect it to be.

Now here's the interesting part, if these aliens exist pretty much as our ancestors described and Sitchin is right they come from a planet in our solar system, the planet that collided with the proto-Earth ~4 bya, then both planets were not only 'infected' with life but both produced hominids under very different conditions. Frankly thats one of Sitchin's weaker arguments, I'd sooner believe they came from a planet within another star's goldilocks zone.

Otoh if a collision with another planet delivered or created life here I'd expect life to be on that other world. I just have a problem believing a planet on such an elliptical orbit with only a few years out of thousands near the sun each time around could produce hominids. But maybe thats the significance of the lotus, a flower with petals resembling a planetary orbit cycling thru its 'great year'.

Have you ever seen Sitchin? He devoted himself to this as a child in school over the meaning of Nephilim. He never struck me as greedy or unethical.

No, we never met. Honestly, I don't give a fraction of a damn what he studied in school (must have been a school where science and logic were optional).

Has he made any money at all from peddling his notions (I won't dignify them with the terms hypothesis or theory)? If so, that's unethical.

There is another option - billions of people over thousands of years are right and you are wrong.

No, I'm sure innonimatu is correct.

@Birdjaguar Remember our discussion about the Fremont rock art at 9 Mile Canyon? I did a little research on what anthropologists and nearby Ute Indians think about it. They offered 2 explanations - a hunting scene and a battle. I think the latter was the Ute perspective. The central horned being was the enemy chief, the horns mean strength and not necessarily divinity, and all the sheep were his warriors. If you look closely there is a line connecting all the sheep to the central horned being thereby indicating subordination of some kind.

I noticed something else just now. If this is a battle scene why aren't the warriors with bows and arrows shooting at the large sheep in the upper row? The warriors are shooting at the horned 'chief' and the smaller sheep below. The battle is not with the sheep in the upper row on either side of the chief. I do agree with the Ute interpretation its a battle of some sort, but I think its a celestial battle between worlds and on one side are 4-6 archers and the other the proto Earth with 20+ smaller satellites. Where is the Moon? It should be there on the panel.

In the Enuma Elish Tiamat is described as the mother of all the gods other than Marduk (the Sun/Apsu being the father). In the Fremont panel the line connecting all the sheep to the central horned deity may be depicting the same relationship. If this Fremont panel does represent their creation story and it matches up with the Mesopotamian Enuma Elish, I'd consider that evidence of pre-Columbian contact.

The level of detail suggests these cosmologies share a more recent origin and not 20,000 years of phone tag. Tower of Babel? A recent dispersion of people from the Middle East following the great meltdown because "God" didn't want us building a tower to visit heaven. Their DNA may have been lost to us but not their stories.

You forgot to include the Louis Vuitton Space Handbag.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I liked the movie Abyss and Lovecraft's myths, so I think UFOs are made by a civilization of half-fish guys inhabiting the bottom of the ocean. Mostly at the Bermudas triangle obviously. They have been studying us since the dawn of humanity because suspect we could poses some intelligence but it is not clear yet.

 

[Berzerker]

Ozone is what happens when three oxygen molecules get together to make O₃.

I just looked up the list of chemicals in the atmosphere. Gold isn't one of them, but I didn't expect it to be.

And Ozone is in our atmosphere and unhealthy and we still need it. As for what purpose the gold serves, it has something to do with maintaining their atmosphere. You assumed that meant they were breathing it. I dont think so. I think gold is part of some technical fix they need. Kinda like how we're considering flooding the upper atmosphere with aerosols to reduce solar radiation but their problem is not enough radiation and gold helps. But thats speculative, what is not is Mesopotamians believed their gods wanted gold.

No, we never met. Honestly, I don't give a fraction of a damn what he studied in school (must have been a school where science and logic were optional).

I think it was synagogue where they're taught the OT. What is unscientific about his notion?

Has he made any money at all from peddling his notions (I won't dignify them with the terms hypothesis or theory)? If so, that's unethical.

You've just indicted everyone who sells notions.

No, I'm sure innonimatu is correct.

While you give yours away

You forgot to include the Louis Vuitton Space Handbag.

See...? The handbag was a device related to flight and it appears at Gobekli Tepe 11,000 years ago, Sumer and Akkad 4,000 years ago, and Mexico 2-3,000 years ago. The Fremont panel is cosmology, thats a different subject.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

And Ozone is in our atmosphere and unhealthy and we still need it. As for what purpose the gold serves, it has something to do with maintaining their atmosphere. You assumed that meant they were breathing it. I dont think so. I think gold is part of some technical fix they need. Kinda like how we're considering flooding the upper atmosphere with aerosols to reduce solar radiation but their problem is not enough radiation and gold helps. But thats speculative, what is not is Mesopotamians believed their gods wanted gold.

You completely missed the point. Ozone is currently a natural part of our atmosphere. Gold is not. We don't have gold in our atmosphere, at least not naturally occurring (I did look this up before posting).

Whatever gold we have is courtesy of our parent star(s) that manufactured it during a supernova explosion and it was part of the nebula that coalesced to form our proto-solar system. When everything settled down, the gold ended up in the ground. Not in the air. This was billions of years before mammals came along, let alone humans.

I think it was synagogue where they're taught the OT. What is unscientific about his notion?

Everything, basically.

You've just indicted everyone who sells notions.

Oh, please. Don't move goalposts. You know I meant notions in the sense of half-baked ideas, rather than sewing supplies.

While you give yours away

Huh?

See...? The handbag was a device related to flight and it appears at Gobekli Tepe 11,000 years ago, Sumer and Akkad 4,000 years ago, and Mexico 2-3,000 years ago. The Fremont panel is cosmology, thats a different subject.

WHOOSH!

Louis Vuitton handbags are overpriced purses that women buy for status. I've never been rich enough to own one, but from what I've seen of them, they're no better than any other purse.

There's quite a trade in fakes, with gullible people spending $$$ for counterfeits.

Fake handbags, fake science.

 

[Kyriakos]

I liked the movie Abyss and Lovecraft's myths, so I think UFOs are made by a civilization of half-fish guys inhabiting the bottom of the ocean. Mostly at the Bermudas triangle obviously. They have been studying us since the dawn of humanity because suspect we could poses some intelligence but it is not clear yet.

In Lovecraft the "half-fish guys" (Deep-ones) are actually an enemy faction, and not part of the "Old ones". Although possibly they were also created by the latter.
In Shadow over Innsmouth, the Deep-ones don't seem to have particularly high tech, and are of roughly human-size. Their strength is in numbers (many billions), but I am not sure if that would be enough.