UK Politics - BoJo and chums

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I think most people vote like this. But thats not actually how the system works.
If it's how the majority of the electorate think the system works, and if political parties campaign as if that is how the system works, then I think there's a pretty strong argument that it is how the system works. The existence of mechanisms to circumvent the system doesn't change that; at most, it presents the more unsettling suggestion that the system simply doesn't work, regardless of what ideal model we're holding it up against, that elected officials are not subject to the sort of democratic accountability we expect they should be, and I think that is the suggestion we are trying to avoid when we appeal to these mechanical technicalities.
 
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I dont know why you reduce it down to nations. London was almost as pro EU as Scotland and has almost double the population.
Thanks for getting the point! In a unitary state then how do we determine where to draw a line? There's something of a devolution scheme for notEngland but if you just start moving northwards from London a bit you'll find that the local speech is another tongue entirely, or nearly so, in spite of the centuries-long efforts of the elocution movement.

On the one hand you have a rule that 50%+1 of votes in a legally nonbinding poll force the country into its new emergent market situation.
On the other you have a few sectors here and there electing a majority of parliament so you incentivise the catering to small groups. A third of the total vote can very well get you an outright majority in the Commons.

Am I the only one seeing the contradiction?
 
BBC said:

Jagtar Singh Johal case: UK spy agencies accused of tip-off that led to torture​

UK intelligence agencies are accused of tipping off Indian authorities about a British national before his abduction and alleged torture by Punjab police.
Jagtar Singh Johal, from Dumbarton, was in India in 2017 when his family say he was forced into an unmarked car.
He says he was then tortured over days, including with electrocution. He has remained in detention since then.
Successive British prime ministers have raised his case but India's government denies he was tortured or mistreated.
In May, Mr Johal was formally charged with conspiracy to commit murder and being a member of a terrorist gang. He will be presented with a full list of the charges against him next month and faces a possible death penalty.
Now the human rights group Reprieve has shown the BBC documentation that it says is compelling evidence that his arrest followed a tip-off from British intelligence.

The UK government says it will not comment on an ongoing legal case.
Reprieve says it has matched several details relating to his case to a specific claim of mistreatment documented in a report by the watchdog that oversees the intelligence agencies.
"In the course of an investigation", says the Investigatory Powers Commissioner's Office (IPCO) report, "MI5 passed intelligence to a liaison partner via the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6).
"The subject of the intelligence was arrested by the liaison partner in their country. The individual told the British Consular Official that he had been tortured."
Mr Johal is not named in the report, but Reprieve's investigators are adamant the facts match his case due to the dates concerned, the lobbying by British prime ministers and supporting evidence detailed in the Indian press.
In 2017, the Hindustan Times reported that Mr Johal had "come under the scanner" after "a source in the UK" provided the Punjab police with "vague information" about a key man, "Johal".

The Indian authorities accuse Mr Johal of involvement in murders they claim are related to Sikh nationalism, though he denies any wrongdoing.

Mr Johal was an active blogger and campaigner for Sikh human rights, which are said to have brought him to the attention of the Indian authorities.
But his brother Gurpreet told the BBC he was not aware of any activity that could be considered illegal.
Mr Johal is currently being held in a Delhi prison. He has alleged that, following his arrest, he was held incommunicado, was brutally interrogated for hours on end, and was initially denied access to lawyers or British consular officials.
He says he was made to sign blank sheets of paper that were later used against him as a false confession.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he raised Mr Johal's case with his Indian counterpart, Narendra Modi, during a trip to India in April this year. His predecessor, Theresa May, also raised the case with the Indian government during her tenure.

On 12 August, Mr Johal lodged a claim in the High Court against the Foreign Office, the Home Office and the attorney general, alleging that UK intelligence agencies unlawfully shared information with the Indian authorities when there was a risk he could be tortured.
Reprieve says this case suggests the government has failed to fix longstanding shortcomings in its policy on torture and the death penalty, and has learned little from past failings such as the MI6 tip-off that led to the rendition and torture of Libyan dissident Abdulhakim Belhaj.
Commenting on the allegations, MP Steve Baker said: "This appalling case, where UK intelligence sharing has been linked to brutal torture, illustrates vividly why the National Security Bill needs to be improved."
Responding on behalf of all three accused government departments, the Foreign Office said: "It would be inappropriate to comment on an ongoing legal case."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62639233
 
The UK has a problem with Islamic and other terrorists.

India has a problem with Islamic and other terrorists.

So their intelligence agencies exchange information.

Bears also crap in woods and the Pope is a catholic.

If the wrong person was arrested, I am content to
let the diplomats deal with it; and if the correct
person was arrested it is for lawyers, judge and jury.
 
The UK has a problem with Islamic and other terrorists.

India has a problem with Islamic and other terrorists.

So their intelligence agencies exchange information.

Bears also crap in woods and the Pope is a catholic.

If the wrong person was arrested, I am content to
let the diplomats deal with it; and if the correct
person was arrested it is for lawyers, judge and jury.
We have laws preventing us deporting or extraditing people to another country where they are at risk of torture, and statements have been made that we should not support countries that do it. If UK authorities are helping other countries with it then our politicians are lying about it, and we should all care about that.
 
The BBC report does not indicate that Jagtar Singh Johal was either deported or extradited to India.

I rather think that there is a material difference between what happened in his case,
and the Libyan dissident transferred from Chinese Hong Kong to Gadaffi's Libya.
 
The BBC report does not indicate that Jagtar Singh Johal was either deported or extradited to India.
Yes, because hinging your argument on semantics, when Samson made it clear it was the behaviour that was the point of discussion, is a great look :)
 
Whose behaviour ?

From that report:

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he raised Mr Johal's case with his Indian counterpart, Narendra Modi, during a trip to
India in April this year. His predecessor, Theresa May, also raised the case with the Indian government during her tenure.

I don't have a problem with that.
 
What do folks think of the ‘cost of living’ crisis (in particular with respect to energy). Should the government be funding energy bills?

I personally feel this is completely unaffordable and such a sticking plaster (does not fix the root cause of the problem one bit).
 
The energy companies get massive profits now, and the worst of all is that it doesn't even matter what source the energy came from - expensive gas costs the same to the consumer as lignitic energy or even solar/wind.

Meanwhile, in other news, machete fight in Leeds.

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Hang the DJ hang the DJ hang the DJ.
 
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What do folks think of the ‘cost of living’ crisis (in particular with respect to energy). Should the government be funding energy bills?

I personally feel this is completely unaffordable and such a sticking plaster (does not fix the root cause of the problem one bit).
I'm living through such a crisis down here and the real problem is that it was put on as a sticking plaster to make up for a brutal scheme of recession-inducing regressive taxation that subsidises the rich and the unproductive at the cost of the poor and the productive.
The same type of regressive, pauperising social organisation (not just taxation) is in place in the UK and has been for decades. What you need to change is the whole system behind that.
 
In some sick way I am hoping this winter is such a brutal clusterfudg that we have a revolution.
 
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