UK: Unemployment is now a punishable offence

[Newbunkle]

Maybe the unemployed wouldn't be unemployed if some of these apparently vital tasks were turned into real jobs?

I don't see the point of making people unemployed and then forcing them to do their old jobs in return for benefits. Unless of course the benefits pay less than an actual wage, in which case this is an evil plan to force people to work for less than minimum wage.

 

[Mise]

Yeah exactly. If it were economically viable to have "community lawnmowers" or whatever, then they should give more money to councils so they can create these jobs. Instead, they've cut the Communities budget by 2/3rds... So much incoherence in Tory policy...

 

[Leonel]

Sounds fair to me!

 

[NovaKart]

They only get 65 pounds a month? It doesn't sound like they're leeching too much out of the system. You can't really get fat off of doing nothing for such a small amount of money can you?

Forcing people to do voluntary work takes away from the time they could actually spend looking for a real job. If it was just some voluntary work once a week or something it wouldn't be that bad but I would object to even that. When I was in high school they forced us to volunteer for a class and I just was put in a laundry room at a nursing home doing work that their employees would normally do. Other classmates I talked to said they just stuffed letters and just did any busywork that was found for them to do. They weren't contributing much in the end. If someone is forced to do voluntary work they're not going to care about doing a good job either.

In the USA people just have to show that they've gone for interviews to keep their unemployment.

 

[DinoDoc]

They only get 65 pounds a month?

They get £65.45 per week for a person aged over 25.

 

[Mise]

It's £65 per week ^^

edit: x-post

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

How much is 65 pounds? I think that is a person is 65 pounds theyre not very healthy.

 

[DinoDoc]

How much is 65 pounds? I think that is a person is 65 pounds theyre not very healthy.

Around 420.89$ a month.

 

[Newbunkle]

I just read that the placements are 30 hours a week, so that's just over £2 per hour then?

I was right, that's a clever way to get around those pesky minimum wage laws.

 

[cardgame]

I'm glad to be in America, where this would be labelled involuntary servitude.

 

[DinoDoc]

I'm glad to be in America, where this would be labelled involuntary servitude.

Involuntary?

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Involuntary?

Well if you cant get a job even when you try it sorta is. Most times unemployment isnt a choice.

 

[cardgame]

Well, thinking it through, perhaps not.

 

[wolfigor]

(tl;dr - unemployment benefits have to last long enough for an unemployed person not merely to find any old job, but to find a job that adequately matches his skills and experience.

The proposed law is meant to cover for 2 cases

a) Lets imagine somebody on the dole for 3 years: could it be that this person is over-estimating the quality of his/her skills?
In this way the welfare recipient will have to re-evaluate his/her choices settle for more realistic expectations.

b) There is plenty of long-term unemployed that get the welfare money and have a non-declared job at the same time.
For this case welfare recipients will not have time for their undeclared job, so they'll have to choose between it and the welfare money.

As the article states, the new scheme will apply only to long term welfare recipients: the scheme is likely to work very well in the cases I described (that's also the target of the proposed law).

Yeah exactly. If it were economically viable to have "community lawnmowers" or whatever, then they should give more money to councils so they can create these jobs. Instead, they've cut the Communities budget by 2/3rds... So much incoherence in Tory policy...

The cost will be not on the local communities, but people will be paid with the welfare money that they previously got "for free".
In this way local communities will be able to extend some services not reduce them.

I just read that the placements are 30 hours a week, so that's just over £2 per hour then?
I was right, that's a clever way to get around those pesky minimum wage laws.

This is one of the main problems with the scheme... it may "eat" into the availability of low-tier jobs making it more difficoult for people to get those jobs and get out of state assistence.

 

[amadeus]

If they're receiving benefits, why shouldn't they have to contribute something for them? Let me back up and ask this: are unemployment benefits compulsory in Britain? If so, then I could see the whole indentured servitude argument.

 

[NovaKart]

How easy is it to live off 65 pounds a week? In America I would have a really hard time living on $420 a month. Maybe they assume unemployed people will have some kind of savings but if someone was living on a minimum wage job I think they likely would not.

 

[Mise]

@wolfigor: You can't claim the main form of jobseeker's allowance for more than 6 months. (The other form is in practice an extension of income support, combined with training programmes and such.) And after 3 months they reassess your claim; if you've been offered jobs but turned them down, it's likely you'll be cut off. The reality is, JSA is not particularly generous in this country.

The point is, if you don't want people claiming unemployment benefit after 6 months or 1 year or 18 months or whatever, then just make the cap 6 months or 1 year or 18 months. If you want to pay people £2 an hour to "volunteer" in the community, then give local councils money to pay for those jobs.

 

[choxorn]

and so over the next few decades the government instituted state pensions, council houses, the NHS and other measures which are now cornerstones of our system and were based fundamentally on the principle that it was not the poor man's fault that he was poor, but it was the state's job to help him out.

OMG SOCHULIZM! BRITISH GOVERNMENT IS HITLER!

[/Tea Partier]

How easy is it to live off 65 pounds a week? In America I would have a really hard time living on $420 a month.

An American would probably need 2-3 times that in order to be living indoors and eating something.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

If they're receiving benefits, why shouldn't they have to contribute something for them? Let me back up and ask this: are unemployment benefits compulsory in Britain? If so, then I could see the whole indentured servitude argument.

Well unemployment isnt exactly a choice.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

You get most of your rent paid for on housing benefit.

It's possible to live on dole money but you have to cut out luxuries and emergencies. You can eat healthily for £20 or so a week.

EDIT: I went to Lidl today! This was my shopping - less than 20 quid:

1.5kg Potatoes
2 tins tomatoes
1 kilo rice
Bottle Soy Sauce
4 small pork chops
Big tub mushrooms
3 mixed peppers
Kidney beans
2 crappy burgers (microwaveable) - I have burger relish I should use
4 days worth pate
Tomato Puree
Washing up liquid
Bleach
Box instant mashed potatoes (4 servings I think)
1 tin corned beef
Big bag of salad
Loaf of bread
8 cans beer! (special offer £4.49)

I have eggs and cheese in, so this weeks meals will be:

S: Pork chops
M: Cheese, mushroom & peppers omelette
T: Pork chops
W/T/F: Lentil chilli (yum!)
S/S: Corned beef hash

I have tinned veg over from last week too.