Ukrainian Crisis thread 1.2

[Domen]

According to the link below, in Ukrainian edition of Gogol's novel "Taras Bulba", each time when word "Rus" appears, it is translated "Ukraine":

http://film.interia.pl/wiadomosci/film/news/kolejny-antypolski-film-z-rosji,1283640,38

Kontrowersje wzbudzał już sam przekład powieści Gogola na język ukraiński, gdzie Nikołaj Gogol jest Mykołą Gogolem, a Ruś zmieniana na Ukrainę.

And here (YT video "Warrior heritage of Ukrainian Cossacks") the same thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7rqdQ7dgCM



Author of this video - TheCossackmate - has "Vladolf Putler" meme (Putin/Hitler conflation) as his avatar.

====================================================

And here an article (in Polish) about the movie "Taras Bulba", titled "Pinnacles of anti-Polish propaganda" ("Szczyty antypolskiej propagandy"):

http://www.bibula.com/?p=16341

The movie had its TV premiere on 4 November, on the 215th anniversary of the Massacre of civilian inhabitants of Warsaw's Praga district by A. Suvorov:

Dnia 4 listopada br. (dla Polaków w 215 rocznicę krwawej rzezi Pragi przez bohatera rosyjskiego feldmarszałka Aleksandra Suworowa) w porze najlepszej oglądalności drugi kanał TV moskiewskiej RTR uczcił obchodzone przez Rosjan święto jedności narodowej nadaniem głośnego filmu reżysera Władimira Bortki “Taras Bulba”. Jest to ekranizacja znanej noweli Mikołaja Gogola o tym samym tytule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Praga#Massacre

It was on 4 November 1794:

(...) Almost all of the area was pillaged and inhabitants of the Praga district were tortured, raped and murdered. The exact death toll of that day remains unknown, but it is estimated that up to 20,000 people were killed.[4]

Suvorov himself wrote: "The whole of Praga was strewn with dead bodies, blood was flowing in streams."[8] (...)

 

[red_elk]

Why did they ban "Taras Bulba" ??? What is so "anti-Ukrainian" in this movie ???

The movie itself is of moderate quality, but it reproduces Gogol's novel quite accurately. Anti-Polish parts were also in original text, IIRC, and they are expected because the main storyline is about war against Poland. What they perceive as anti-Ukrainian, I guess, are the moments where Zaporozhian cossacks shown as patriots of Rus and Russia. This is somewhat tricky part for Ukrainian nationalists - some of them consider Russia and everything related to it as hostile to Ukraine, the other part perceive Ukraine as the "true" Russian Slavonic state, and Russians ("Muscovites") according to them are descendants of Finno-Ugric and Tatar tribes. Assuming it is something offensive for the Russians

 

[r16]

Try to read Groff's message again.
If witness is right, they didn't want to shoot it down.

a hell of a day ... Missing plane , burning ferry and a Turkish freighter rammed for good measure . What's the expertise of "KGB" these days , shoe-polishing ? Never assume mistakes and errors in this brave new world , or Malaysians will again throw a fit and loose a fourth .

 

[Yeekim]

Try to read Groff's message again.
If witness is right, they didn't want to shoot it down.

This begs the question why was the SU-25 supposedly sent up with those air-to-air missiles in the first place and what it was supposed to be shooting at?

Groff's article itself says:

Spoiler :

According to him (the witness), he “personally saw as Voloshin’s fighter ahead of the sortie was loaded with the R-60 type air-to-air missiles with which the Su-25 fighters were not normally loaded for their sorties.” “The witness said there was no need to equip the fighters with such missiles, as the people’s militia (in the south-east of Ukraine) are not armed with aircraft,” Markin said.

The witness drew attention to the fact that when the fighter jet returned to the aerodrome it had no missiles and also then he clearly heard the words of pilot Voloshin who told a fellow soldier: “The plane turned out at a wrong time and at a wrong place.”

That witness is contradicting himself.

 

[r16]

the Fencer hunting for the truck with Lithuanian Special Forces on board , carrying a special load of wigs . Anyone who identifies the target for the use of wigs first will get the computer game of his choice up to 49.99 USD as soon ı get to become the Starfleet Commander .

not a thing for Ukranian missile forces , considering a Fencer supposedly shut down a USN destroyer . Nor for the Ukranian Fulcrums and Flankers , considering them Russkie Flankers could surely "smell" them around . So here ı am an Ukranian Frogfoot driver , flying so low that mud splashes on my windshield , see the evil Fencer up in the sky , point the nose up , fire IR homers which move so stealthily and stuff and swing immediately down in case Dimitry Ivanovich is sweeping with electro-optics . The Missiles miss and climb and climb and climb .

truth ? Am no Su-25 driver and this didn't happen . But them Russkies offer the prospects to reach a deal with them Yanks , considering it's like impossible for the world to "meekly" accept .

 

[red_elk]

That witness is contradicting himself.

According to witness, the plane was loaded with R-60 before sortie and returned without missiles. Where is the contradiction?

As for the question why SU-25 could be loaded with AA missiles - Ukraine claimed multiple times that Russian jets were shooting down Ukrainian planes over their territory:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/w...-russian-plane-shot-down-its-fighter-jet.html

There is the possibility that they not only claimed it for propaganda reasons, but actually believed it.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Well, when your airplanes suddenly disappear and enemy ones appear, there's plenty of place for paranoia.

 

[Yeekim]

According to witness, the plane was loaded with R-60 before sortie and returned without missiles. Where is the contradiction?

As for the question why SU-25 could be loaded with AA missiles - Ukraine claimed multiple times that Russian jets were shooting down Ukrainian planes over their territory:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/w...-russian-plane-shot-down-its-fighter-jet.html

There is the possibility that they not only claimed it for propaganda reasons, but actually believed it.

...and the pilot of the SU-25 took the airliner for a Russian jet fighter?

 

[red_elk]

...and the pilot of the SU-25 took the airliner for a Russian jet fighter?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

 

[Yeekim]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

Indeed, I think SAM (a BUK, to be more precise) was much more likely reason in this case as well.

EDIT: Bear in mind that R-60s that the SU-25 was supposedly carrying, have an operational range of 0,3-8km, meaning one has to see what one is shooting at.

In contrast, Flight 1812 was hit by S-200, which "overshot its target drone and instead of self-destructing, locked in on the passenger plane about 250 kilometres further away".

 

[FriendlyFire]

In Russian they shoot down airplanes on the runway, with snow removal machine (and too much Vodka)

 

[red_elk]

Indeed, I think SAM (a BUK, to be more precise) was much more likely reason in this case as well.

For a fake witness story, a SU-25 plane is not very good candidate. Ukrainian SAM or at least fighter jet (instead of ground attack SU-25) looks much more compelling. But if witness testimony is genuine, it's better present it as it is, even if it doesn't sound convincing. May be further investigation reveals something about this.

 

[red_elk]

At least one fact is confirmed - the pilot Vladislav Voloshin indeed serves in Ukrainian air forces and he participated in military operation in South-East.
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/12/29/poligraf/

 

[FriendlyFire]

Surprisingly Russian Army is not as corrupt as its police, and education institutions.

Addressing those high levels in 2009, President Dmitry Medvedev blamed the “undisciplined, criminally careless behaviour of our drivers,” along with poor road conditions.

Drivers certainly play a role, but Medvedev did not mention Russia’s traffic police, which, Galperina writes, “is known throughout their land for brutality, corruption, extortion and making an income on bribes.”

That is not hyperbole. Russia ranks 133rd among the world’s nations in corruption (where number one is the least corrupt), according to Transparency International. Much of that corruption is on the part of the traffic police, an institution that, along with kindergartens and higher education, was ranked by Russians as the country’s most corrupt. In a recent poll, 32 per cent of Russians surveyed called traffic police the most corrupt institution.

The army is also particularly vulnerable to corruption, particularly during periods of draft, found the report. Middle schools and medical institutions are also susceptible.

Russia is considered the world’s most corrupt large economy, according to Transparency International, which rates it 143 out of 182, alongside Uganda, Nigeria, and East Timor.

 

[red_elk]

Annual torchlite parade of Ukrainian nationalists in Kiev, honoring Stepan Bandera.


Link to video.

And once again Russian journalists are being attacked and robbed during the march.
http://rt.com/news/219267-protest-bandera-journalists-attacked/

 

[calad]

So was there any fighting during new year?

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

I consider Transparency International on the top list of the most corrupt and biased pseudo-international organizations.

 

[gay_Aleks]

They consider the same, so it's mutual.

 

[red_elk]

Ukrainian "Inter" TV channel is threatened with loss of license for broadcasting a Russian pop songs show during New Year Eve.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-tv-lands-in-hot-water-over-russian-pop-songs/ar-BBhsbx1

Ukrainian Defense Council Secretary Alexander Turchinov claimed the channel "became an element of information war being waged against its own country"
http://itar-tass.com/en/world/770217

Central office of "Inter" was attacked tonight by a group of unknown people wearing masks.
https://news.pn/en/criminal/122664

Russia sends 11-th humanitarian convoy to the South-East of Ukraine, on January 8-th
http://itar-tass.com/en/russia/770280

 

[Domen]

(...) honoring Stepan Bandera

Greater Ukraine - 765,000 square km:



Don't ask why this map is in German...