Ukrainian Crisis thread 1.2

[Squonk]

Sorry, but Bratslav Voivodship was considered Podolia, just the part that wasn't subdued by Poles, but remained in Lithuanian hands when the region was divided between Lithuania and Poland.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Greater Ukraine - 765,000 square km:

Spoiler :

Don't ask why this map is in German...

It is written "Die Ukraine" there. While in the Ukrainian hymn it says "Ukraine has not died yet!"

 

[red_elk]

Ukrainian PM explains to the Germans what in fact happened in WW2.


Link to video.

It could be funny if it wasn't so sad.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Ukrainian PM explains to the Germans what in fact happened in WW2.

It could be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Of course Ukraine wants to ally itself with Hitler Germany. And Russia has no idea why this could possibly be, given how mother Russia is such a good guy.
Many people in America from a certain party also wished Hitler had won WW2 as well and that Democrat FDR had failed.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Compared to the Anglo-Saxon world, it is.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Compared to the Anglo-Saxon world, it is.

So its the Slavic world vs the Anglo-Saxon world now ?
I like how G.W.Bush flush the US prestige down the drain with Iraq, Heck of a Job

Why do nearly 40 percent of Germans endorse Russia’s annexation of Crimea?

Russian President Vladimir Putin's annexation of Crimea has found supporters in an unlikely country: Last Sunday, an opinion poll in Germany found that nearly 40 percent of the country's population accept the move.

The surprising result has stirred debate in Germany, prompting some to ask: Is Germany -- which just celebrated the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of Soviet-era communism -- Russia's closest ally in the West?

Germans themselves have grown increasingly critical of the West. After trust in the United States suffered during the Iraq war, the NSA spying scandal provoked new anger and provided arguments to those who wanted to position Germany as a negotiator between Russia and the West, rather than as a strong U.S. ally.

The country also heavily depends on oil exported by Russia, and many German companies operate on Russian territory, making them potential victims of any future Russian retaliation.

However, as Sunday's poll showed, a substantial number of Germans would probably prefer open doors to confrontation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...germans-endorse-russias-annexation-of-crimea/

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Ukrainian PM explains to the Germans what in fact happened in WW2.

It could be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I am sorry Ukraine has such a rat for PM...

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

So its the Slavic world vs the Anglo-Saxon world now ?
I like how G.W.Bush flush the US prestige down the drain with Iraq, Heck of a Job

Dont forget G.W.B. is just a usefull idiot. There are influential groups with interests pulling up the strings from behind. You cant just blame it on one dude...

 

[red_elk]

Ukrainian journalists report that Ukrainian troops fighting in Donetsk airport encountered a new type of enemy - "termotubbies". Which according to them are Russian spetsnaz operatives wearing inflatable termosuites (sic!), which makes them invisible for night vision equipment.

https://twitter.com/bryhynets/status/553937811867717632

Sounds like a joke, but it isn't. Author of message was a member of Ukrainian parliament until recent elections in November.

 

[Domen]

Edit: Never mind.

 

[red_elk]

Reports about sharp intensification of Donetsk shelling from Ukrainian army side.
http://lifenews.ru/news/148227

Unconfirmed reports about heavy shelling in Gorlovka and Ukrainian advance near Lugansk.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Unconfirmed reports about heavy shelling in Gorlovka and Ukrainian advance near Lugansk.

Yes the Ukrainians are advancing ..... backwards
Soon the Ukraine will advance to a small pocket behind the Dniester.

On the outskirts of the city, a fierce battle for control of Donetsk's airport has left terminals shot up and largely destroyed.

Ukrainian government forces have stubbornly held on as pro-Russian rebels methodically advance, building by building.

Zhanna Pushkarova, who also goes by her married surname Zalogina, explains that she did not even know her 18-year-old son, Yevgeny, had volunteered until he called from Ukraine.

"I was so yelling by phone: '(Yevgeny), what have you done! Why have you gone there!' And he said: No worries mum! Everything will be OK with me.

But in October, after a little more than a month on the frontlines, Yevgeny Pushkarov was killed.

She said some young Russians doing mandatory army service have also wound up fighting with pro-Russian rebels.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-...g-thousands-lured-to-fight-in-ukraine/6009034

 

[r16]

Ukrainian journalists report that Ukrainian troops fighting in Donetsk airport encountered a new type of enemy - "termotubbies". Which according to them are Russian spetsnaz operatives wearing inflatable termosuites (sic!), which makes them invisible for night vision equipment.

https://twitter.com/bryhynets/status/553937811867717632

Sounds like a joke, but it isn't. Author of message was a member of Ukrainian parliament until recent elections in November.

ı first "encountered" such a suit in a comic book of the 80s . Actually quite imaginable , considering seperatists in Turkey love huge black umbrellas which they wet with water when wrapping themselves in plastic sheets didn't work . Cost the Turkish Military something like 30 killed .

 

[red_elk]

According to Strelkov, there are positional battles along all frontline.
Zakharchenko blamed Kiev in unilateral violation of cease-fire.
http://lenta.ru/news/2015/01/12/fight/

ı first "encountered" such a suit in a comic book of the 80s . Actually quite imaginable , considering seperatists in Turkey love huge black umbrellas which they wet with water when wrapping themselves in plastic sheets didn't work . Cost the Turkish Military something like 30 killed .

A secret photo of Russian spetsnaz wearing this suit was published:

Spoiler :

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Ukrainian PM explains to the Germans what in fact happened in WW2.


Link to video.

It could be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I can agree that it is a cheap and dubious strategy to compare the Soviet recapture of Ukraine and invasion of Germany. probably to steer sympathies in Germany, to evoke the image of an historic common enemy. Pretty cheap.

That was a bad move on his part. But not much more when just going by those few sentences he uttered here. The essence was to draw a parallel between Soviet aggression and desire to expand and the one of modern Russia, since the Soviet Union did not just repel Nazi Germany but occupied or retook already previously occupied territories itself. How good that parallel is is a different quesitpon, but it seems to resonate with sentiments in many former countries of the Soviet sphere - and East Germany was part of that.

 

[Domen]

since the Soviet Union did not just repel Nazi Germany but occupied or retook already previously occupied territories itself.

As well as occupied previously independent territories in period 1939-1941:



The SU tried to regain former (pre-1914) territories of the Russian Empire.

 

[red_elk]

The essence was to draw a parallel between Soviet aggression and desire to expand and the one of modern Russia, since the Soviet Union did not just repel Nazi Germany but occupied or retook already previously occupied territories itself.

The essence was to paint Soviet Union as aggressor in its war against Nazi Germany. And to call the liberation of Ukraine from Hitler forces "invasion".

 

[LamaGT]

I can agree that it is a cheap and dubious strategy to compare the Soviet recapture of Ukraine and invasion of Germany. probably to steer sympathies in Germany, to evoke the image of an historic common enemy. Pretty cheap.

That was a bad move on his part. But not much more when just going by those few sentences he uttered here. The essence was to draw a parallel between Soviet aggression and desire to expand and the one of modern Russia, since the Soviet Union did not just repel Nazi Germany but occupied or retook already previously occupied territories itself. How good that parallel is is a different quesitpon, but it seems to resonate with sentiments in many former countries of the Soviet sphere - and East Germany was part of that.

You know you're the biggest russophobe when you're a PM and talk about Hitler defending himself against the USSR.
The funniest part was that about rewriting history . The very definition of hypocrisy

The USA also "invaded" France, Italy, Germany and Japan. It also made sure to install puppet regimes there after the war.
If we follow this logic, Hitler really was defending his homeland against evil foreigners. Actually, I'd expect your average neo-Nazi to believe that.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

The essence was to paint Soviet Union as aggressor in its war against Nazi Germany. And to call the liberation of Ukraine from Hitler forces "invasion".

Ukraine had not been liberated, from what I understand. Ukraine just traded masters. Just as Poland had not been liberated or any other nation except I guess Austria, since that was the only country Soviet forces eventually retreated from.
And we probably all agree that it would be ridiculous to paint Soviet Union as the agressor regarding Nazi Germany. And hey, I also can see how it is possible to understand the PM that way. As said, the comparison of Ukraine and Nazi Germany is pretty far out there, okay. But it is IMO an absurd and extremely mean-spirited understanding to actually assume that the PM wanted to say that the SU was the aggressor against Nazi Germany, since it would be so ridiculous and since there are far more plausible alternative interpretations. Such as that the PM simply wanted to emphasize the SU's own aggressive ways and at the same time wanted to make Germans feel like they should also fear Russian aggressions.

Basically, what I see is a PM who clumsily tried to win German sympathies and nothing more. But some people seem to be bend on vilifying that PM.. we probably can blame Russia Today for that.

The USA also "invaded" France, Italy, Germany and Japan. It also made sure to install puppet regimes there after the war.

Naturally the USA also tried to steer things in a way it favored. But its means to do so were universes away from the means the Soviet Union used. It makes not much if any sense to treat them as different dimensions of the same thing, but a whole lot of sense to treat them as entirely different things. Such as continued occupution in the East and sovereignty in the West. Imperfect rough words, but in relation to one another they bring the message across methinks.

 

[red_elk]

Ukraine had not been liberated, from what I understand. Ukraine just traded masters.

From this point of view, France and Belgium weren't liberated too. Just traded masters.
Ukraine was a core part of USSR, one of entities which created it.

But it is IMO an absurd and extremely mean-spirited understanding to actually assume that the PM wanted to say that the SU was the aggressor against Nazi Germany

He said that USSR invaded Ukraine and Germany. How else can it be interpreted except that USSR was aggressor from his point of view?