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Unique unit elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Kimiimaro, Apr 24, 2018.

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  1. Forster

    Forster Prince

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 24
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) – 25
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 19
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 41-3=38 Just don't see an archer as the best unit.
    War Cart (Sumer) – 36+1=37 Legion was my first choice, so now I'll go with my second. This is tough because the 2 units that are game changers early game are these and the eagle warrior. This costs a little less and can move farther.
     
  2. Kimiimaro

    Kimiimaro King

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    I'm just a simple King level peasant who takes hundreds of turns to win the game and who got wiped out by AI Gilgamesh :p

    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 21
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) – 25
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 19-3=16 - I know that all the units left are great enough to do a serious harm to enemy army or even wipe out entire civilizations when their time comes. And that's exactly the problem of Mamluk is. They are excellent - they replace one of the best regular units and have one of the most OP abilities - they heal each turn. They also don't require iron, which is sometimes problematic to get. However, the other units come much sooner, so Arabia might have problem building Mamluk army when they will be already wiped out by Sumer, Nubia or Macedon.
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 38+1=39 - These guys come really soon - in the very first era. They are cheap, very strong, fast and gain experience faster. Pítatis are simply able to wreck most other units without even getting hurt.
    War Cart (Sumer) – 37
     
  3. liv

    liv Emperor

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 18 (-3) They are wonderful but compared to the rest on the list slow
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) – 25
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 16
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 39
    War Cart (Sumer) – 38 (+1) Cheap and fast and early and becomes knights
     
  4. Stomper66

    Stomper66 Warlord

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 19 (18+1) No other unit will give you every city tile and district developed in every city in the ancient / classical era.
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 22 (25-3) Again not a fan of light cavalry when spearmen can take them out easily.

    Mamluk (Arabia) - 16
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 39
    War Cart (Sumer) – 38
     
  5. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 20 (19+1; This unit really deserves a top 3 finish).
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 19 (22-3; Perhaps better than the Mamluk, but it's not on the level of the three ancient beasts)
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 16
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 39
    War Cart (Sumer) – 38
     
  6. Chibisuke

    Chibisuke Warlord

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 17 (20 - 3) It's a great unit, top 5 makes sense. But on harder difficulty it requires too much luck to get as much benefit as the other remaining units. The others all have superior mobility and are generally more deadly. Like I said, free worker is wonderful but high build cost is too much of a negative here.
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 19
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 16
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 40 (39 + 1) Still is the best unit at the best time to snowball and take a big lead. In deity or immortal, you can't beat that.
    War Cart (Sumer) – 38
     
  7. The Highwayman

    The Highwayman Prince

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 18 (17+1) An argument can be made for the War Cart and Potato Archer for #1 no doubt. But this big of a gap? No way.
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 19
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 13 (16-3) Only because of the timing vs. the others. These won't help you vs. an aggressive neighbor early on. Rightfully in the top 5.
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 40
    War Cart (Sumer) – 38
     
  8. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 18
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 16 (19 - 3): The unit is great, no question; just the bonuses of the other units are better. Free workers, better & earlier chariot, ridiculous archer, and a version of arguably the best unit in the game that heals every turn? Sorry, a +5 combat bonus when near generals and a free promotion just isn't as good as the rest.
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 13
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 41 (40 +1): I've already said why I'm upvoting this one. Just refer back to my other posts.
    War Cart (Sumer) – 38
     
  9. grant2004

    grant2004 Citizen

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 19 = (18+1) Shouldn't be anywhere close to this low. I think this unit has the greatest staying power of any of the units on here. When a unit that only brings added strength is obsoleted there's no reason to keep it around, just upgrade to a stronger one. The ability to generate builders is so immensely valuable that it's worth putting a little extra effort to make it happen. It's worth investing in some policies to boost combat strength so that the unit remains relevant and you can continue to generate increasingly valuable builders. It's worth supporting the Eagle with other units and planning ahead to help it get kills. Sure there are narrow circumstances where this unit isn't useful, there are for any unit, does the war cart do well on an archipelago map? In the vast majority of situations this unit gives you a huge early economic advantage that you can leverage for any victory you want.
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 16
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 13
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 41
    War Cart (Sumer) – 35 = (38-3) A strong unit that deserves 5th place.
     
  10. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Moderator Action: Again, a reminder that elimination threads are not general discussion threads. You should only post if you are voting or correcting a vote total. Five posts deleted.
     
  11. Wyvern_Parade

    Wyvern_Parade Warlord

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 16 (19-3) Reasoning below
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 16
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 13
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 41
    War Cart (Sumer) – 36 (35+1) Reasoning below

    The philosophy behind everyone's voting in this thread is quite interesting, and all of these unit have strong cases to be in the top 3 depending on how you are evaluating them. It seems many are taking the approach of 'how useful is this unit against the AI' or 'how easily can I exploit an AI enemy with this unit'. Understandable, as the vast majority here play only single player games.

    However, as someone who plays against human opponents regularly, my criteria is "how dangerous is this unit in the hands of the most skilled human opponent?' or 'which of these units, when used in the most optimal way, gives someone a significant combat advantage against a player of equal skill?"

    Of course a brain-dead AI can be easily exploited by Eagle warriors, giving you a HUGE economic advantage that snowballs into the mid game. However, against a competent player, it is much more difficult to defend against the raw power, speed, and lower production cost of the War Cart, or the insane hit-and-run ability of the Pitati Archer. So while I understand the reasoning behind the fervent Eagle Warrior support in this thread, I think the WC and Pitati clearly deserve the top 2 spots because their ceilings are much higher (if not to the point of being completely broken) in the hands of a good player.

    All that being said, the new +1 movement added to the Commandos melee unit upgrade is really nice for the Eagle Warrior. But without testing it out first, I can't factor that into this vote.
     
  12. Mr. Shadows

    Mr. Shadows Nomad of the time streams

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 13 (16-3=13) Popular opinion gives these units far more credit than they deserve.
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 13
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 42 (41+1=42) These are definitely top tier units.
    War Cart (Sumer) – 36.
     
  13. Chibisuke

    Chibisuke Warlord

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    You dropped the Macedon unit
     
  14. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 14 (13+1) Again, other units mostly just kill. This one not only kills, but also supplies workforce. The boost for the economy comes when it is essential.
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 16
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 10 (13-3) I think the self healing knight reached its limit.
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 42
    War Cart (Sumer) – 36
     
  15. KAL_MAD

    KAL_MAD Chieftain

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 15 (14+1) Kills AND help you build.
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 16
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 10 (13-3)
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 42
    War Cart (Sumer) – 33 (36 - 3) Only kills
     
  16. BenitoChavez

    BenitoChavez Whispering Walrus

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    New Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 15
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 16
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 11 = 10 + 1. I just play a game up to the medieval era as Sumer. Warcarts did well but nothing super special. Once I ran into Arabia the Mamluks were a nightmare to deal with. The heal at the end of the turn is super super strong.
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 39 = 42 - 3. If you take away Nubia's civ ability, the extra xp and production towards ranged units, and only look at the unit itself the Pitati are much less impressive.
    War Cart (Sumer) – 33
     
  17. Temppu

    Temppu Warlord

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 12=15-3 Im tempted to give these more value due to +1 movement from patched Commando, but many other units (e.g., Immortal) did not have such an opportunity so I guess Ill vote by the pre-patch rules. Too slow too costly.
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 17=16+1 +5 from generals is not to be underestimated, +5 GG points per kill guaranteeing the recruitment of it.
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 11
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 39
    War Cart (Sumer) – 33
     
  18. Eliminator_Sr

    Eliminator_Sr Prince

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 12 + 1 = 13 (Looks like it's not going to survive for much longer. Sure it's not the best unit for speed domination but I still think its overall impact for all victory types trumps any other unit. I'm voting from a single player standpoint and I can see it might be a little less useful in MP, but I sure wouldn't want to start next to the Aztecs against human opponents. They are very effective at taking cities early and defending against them with warriors and slingers would be very tough)
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 17
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 11 - 3 = 8 (Big fan of this unit and Arabia is my favorite civ but this one just comes significantly later than the other units and it's the only one without additional combat strength)
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 39
    War Cart (Sumer) – 33
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  19. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 13
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 17
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 5 (8 - 3) Great unit, but arrives much later than the other remaining units. The other units will help you out much earlier, thus having a greater impact on the game.
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 40 (39 + 1) Simply the best UU in the game. Archers are already great. These have great mobility combined with range, which is a huge advantage, even before you consider the additional strength and synergy with Nubia's UA (which I feel is fair to take into consideration, as it is clearly designed to benefit the Pitati Archer).
    War Cart (Sumer) – 33

    The changes in the Spring Patch are interesting. The change to Commando is a decent boost to all Melee units, which mitigates one of their most significant drawbacks. You do have to get to the second tier promotions to get it though, meaning this is a bigger boost to the melee units which can be upgraded into, or in the case of the Eagle Warrior, are available from the start, than the ones which must be hard built later.

    Additionally, the Spring Patch buffs some specific Melee units, which would probably have done better in this thread if the changes had been taken into consideration. Apart from possibly the Immortal (which was apparently bugged) these are still nowhere near top tier, though, as they have to be hard built. That said, I find the Berserker changes to be particularly: With the Spring Patch, these are now potentially faster than Knights (in enemy territory), cheaper, and can hit harder. In addition to this, they pillage faster, and can embark and disembark at no extra movement cost. This makes them much closer to what I believe they are supposed to be thematically: hard hitting, mobile terrors on the coast. Consider a berserker with two promotions, Battlecry and Commando. On the offence, this unit has 5 movement points, embarks and disembarks with no additional movement cost, needs one less movement point to pillage, and hits for a whopping 57, more than the base strength of a Musketman. The only thing the Berserker lacks to be really good now, is the ability to upgrade into it.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  20. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) – 10 (13-3) --- I’m trying to come up with a negative thesis other than it’s an infantry unit and needs to get off this list (which is now mitigated by the +1 movement commando promotion). One potential problem I find here is, if you have a civ that starts very close to you, often you will be able to farm so many builders that your ancient era low population cities get built up beyond their means to engage with the improvements, and as the Eagle Warrior is a (relatively) slow moving unit, it is difficult to acquire new cities to utilize your builder horde in a timely manner. By the time the Eagles get to a new region, their utility curve may be very close to ending (or past), and they are more easily destroyed. Unless, of course, you happen to start in the middle of a 3 continent juncture point and have a +10 combat bonus from amenities. Then, if your 2nd neighbor is close enough, your underutilized builder problem has the very real potential to compound, creating yet more builders beyond your capacity to use them efficiently.
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) – 18 (17+1) --- As previously stated, no zone of control, 25 science per unit when built in your Basilikoi Paides, starts w/ 1 promotion, moves 4, does not require strategic resources, 46 operational melee strength when accompanied with a great general, +5 great general points for every unit killed (including barbarian scouts), available early in the tech tree with horsemanship.

    Mamluk (Arabia) – 5
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 40
    War Cart (Sumer) – 33

    Spring Patch: I think infantry units have been significantly boosted relative to cavalry in a couple of ways. First, they can move 3 (4 with an appropriate era great general). Secondly, beginning as early as the Classical Era, cav units will have to assume infantry can move 3, discouraging more daring and aggressive maneuvers with half dead units that used to be assured of being just 1 tile out of range but could now (possibly) be within striking distance of a 3 move infantryman. This changes the dynamic, for me, significantly.

    I’d swear I can hear the ghosts of the Immortal and Legion demanding a recount.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
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