Universal trashy names

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by The_J, Jul 31, 2021.

  1. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Super Moderator Supporter

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    TIL: So I knew that in Germany there are certain names, which basically make you appear like you're white trash. One of them is "Kevin". Today I learned this is also the case for France, https://www.thelocal.fr/20170119/we...in-how-a-hollywood-naming-craze-swept-france/ .

    This seems more universal than I thought :lol:.
     
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  2. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos The Eternal

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    The english analogue would be something like Oliver :mischief:

    (jk, I just knew someone called Oliver, and he was white trash)
     
  3. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    There have been a lot of famous Olivers, from politicians to the character in Oliver Twist (yes, I've read the novel that the musical was based on; there are parts of that book that were not family-friendly enough for a general audience, so some details were changed).

    Other than Kevin Costner and the bratty kid in the Home Alone movies, the only Kevin I recall at the moment was a classmate from Grade 1. He was a brat at times.
     
  4. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    "Oliver" would be considered a stereotypically posh name in the UK. A stereotypical "white trash" male name would be something like "Gavin", "Liam" or "Keiran". (The non-English origins of these names is not a coincidence.)
     
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  5. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    There's also Stacey, Kevin, Tracey and any name you hear shouted at full blast on the likes of Eastenders.
     
  6. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    (Kevin and Tracey also of Irish origin! I won't pretend to have a coherent explanation but there is definitely some sort of Thing at play in which names either become popular with and/or become identified with poor urban whites, i.e. "white trash".)
     
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  7. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos The Eternal

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    The Oliver I had the ill fortune to meet was actually from a working class background. Maybe his family had other aspirations :o
    Although it should be noted he went by "Ollie". Maybe that sounds considerably less posh.
     
  8. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    Possibly from a lot of Irish migrating to the UK in the 10th and 20th centuries as cheap manual labour which obviously meant they weren't posh?
     
  9. amadeus

    amadeus Hey now!

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    There are names in Japan too associated, perhaps not necessarily with low-class but more low-sense; these are called “kira-kira names” (kira-kira means to sparkle) or “DQN” names, with the latter referring to a TV show from the ‘90s that I guess dealt with a lot of teen pregnancies as a backstory?

    The premise anyway is that while the choice of Japanese characters are restricted in names, there is no formal code restricting how they are read. Imagine in the English-speaking world if someone spells their name B-I-L-L but then tells you the pronunciation is actually “Rosebud.”

    It’s something to tread lightly on though because Japan also has broad defamation laws, so calling someone “DQN” could be considered slander! I don’t know if that’s actually been decided by the courts, but one thing that has is that while there is no written code restricting parents’ choice the Nagoya High Court has struck down names that were considered harmful to a child’s development.
     
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  10. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    The English analogue would be Kevin.
    Heres the Harry Enfield character Kevin becoming a teenager

    and the Rik Mayall character Kevin Turvey
     
  11. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos The Eternal

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    ^What about Collin?
     
  12. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    Poor urban whites... :think:

    I've just remembered that one of the second-tier characters on the soap opera One Life to Live (which I watched, off and on, for about 15 years) was Kevin Buchanan, eldest son of Victoria Lord Buchanan (with a bunch of other last names besides), whose family owned the town's major newspaper. This family was one of the three wealthiest in town, and Kevin Buchanan was never poor and never had to wonder where his next meal was coming from (though the actors who played him might have had to; there were a lot of different Kevins over the years as some actors quit or were fired for whatever reason).

    As for "Oliver"...



    Yeah, it doesn't appear to be a respectable name in Dickens' England.
     
  13. Gelion

    Gelion Captain

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    Oh no.... I actually liked "Home Alone"...
     
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  14. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    "Ollie" would stereotypically read as posher than plain "Oliver", although that might be a more recent development.

    For sure, the Irish origin of many "chav names" is connected with the historical low status of anything Irish in Britain. The trick is that it doesn't seem to be 1:1 relationship; a name like "Liam" or "Keiran" achieves these associations, but "Fergal" or "Dara" do not. So there's some mechanism by which low-status names are probably Irish, but Irish names are not necessarily low-status.

    But consider that Oliver is revealed to be the estranged son of a wealthy family. "Oliver" appears to have been chosen as a name that would pass for both a street urchin and a little lord, where "Jack" might pass for the former and not the latter, and "Horatio" the latter but not the former.

    Also, I'd hazard that if the class-differentiation we're in names really does have a strong ethnic component, we wouldn't expect it to become evident in London until the influx of Irish migrants which doesn't really get underway until about a decade after Oliver Twist was published. At this stage, everyone is probably drawing on the same stock of old English names, with whatever class-differentiation existed coming from the fashion for classical or chivalric names among wealthy families.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
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  15. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Hilariously, those names would all be considered quite posh in America.

    "Kevin" is a pretty normal name over here. "Low class" names for guys tend to be Tyler/Skyler/Kyler/Ryler variations, with girls as some variation of Becka/Becky or Brittney.
    Then of course there is the whole thing with a lot of black communities choosing interesting names. Two examples immortalized in Freakonomics being La-a (pronounced Ladasha) and Abcedia (per the authors, based on the first five letters of the alphabet).
     
  16. amadeus

    amadeus Hey now!

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    Liam was actually the most popular name for baby boys in 2020.

    The Social Security Administration has a list online.

    https://www.ssa.gov/oact/babynames/

    Edit: also any name that has -ayden reminds me of Eiden, the electronics store I used to sometimes shop at when I lived in Aichi years ago. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  17. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Oliver has actually been the most popular boy's name in England and Wales every year since 2013.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...irths/bulletins/babynamesenglandandwales/2019

    I don't think it has ever been a "chav" name here. Wayne, Darren, Shane all are.
    Any name taken from pop culture runs the risk of short-lived popularity and looking very dated in years to come. Dua and Kylo from current popular names may run that risk.
     
  18. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    I might be off the mark, here, but my impression is that those would have been considered preppy/high-status names maybe twenty years ago?
     
  19. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos The Eternal

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    Google tells me that the most posh names are Juniper and Jovi :dunno:
    Assuming that "Jovi" is Jovian, it should be very posh. I'd have expected also Dorian and Julian to be there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
  20. Naskra

    Naskra Emperor

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    For 75 years after Queensberry no English child was christened "Oscar". "Monica" is having similar impact.
     

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