Universal trashy names

[The_J]

TIL: So I knew that in Germany there are certain names, which basically make you appear like you're white trash. One of them is "Kevin". Today I learned this is also the case for France, https://www.thelocal.fr/20170119/we...in-how-a-hollywood-naming-craze-swept-france/ .

The name dropped out of fashion after a couple of years, according to sociologist Baptiste Coulmont because“Parisian intellectual elites” sneered at the name. Apparently, it was deemed tacky and in poor taste to name a French child after a Hollywood actor, and fictional American child from a Christmas film.

Now, being a Kévin in a French world of Juliens and Sébastiens can apparently even hold you back in life.

Submit a CV with the name Kévin on it and you’ll have a 10% chance of getting hired compared to a 30% chance for an Arthur with the same CV, noted Jean-Francois Amadieu from the French discrimination Obervatory.

A Reddit thread on “what name is considered to be trashy in your country” had commenters from France saying that calling someone “a Kevin” is “practically an insult” denoting childishness and low intelligence because of the association with film and TV.

This seems more universal than I thought .

 

[Kyriakos]

The english analogue would be something like Oliver

(jk, I just knew someone called Oliver, and he was white trash)

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The english analogue would be something like Oliver

(jk, I just knew someone called Oliver, and he was white trash)

There have been a lot of famous Olivers, from politicians to the character in Oliver Twist (yes, I've read the novel that the musical was based on; there are parts of that book that were not family-friendly enough for a general audience, so some details were changed).

Other than Kevin Costner and the bratty kid in the Home Alone movies, the only Kevin I recall at the moment was a classmate from Grade 1. He was a brat at times.

 

[Traitorfish]

"Oliver" would be considered a stereotypically posh name in the UK. A stereotypical "white trash" male name would be something like "Gavin", "Liam" or "Keiran". (The non-English origins of these names is not a coincidence.)

 

[Arakhor]

There's also Stacey, Kevin, Tracey and any name you hear shouted at full blast on the likes of Eastenders.

 

[Traitorfish]

(Kevin and Tracey also of Irish origin! I won't pretend to have a coherent explanation but there is definitely some sort of Thing at play in which names either become popular with and/or become identified with poor urban whites, i.e. "white trash".)

 

[Kyriakos]

"Oliver" would be considered a stereotypically posh name in the UK. A stereotypical "white trash" male name would be something like "Gavin", "Liam" or "Keiran". (The non-English origins of these names is not a coincidence.)

The Oliver I had the ill fortune to meet was actually from a working class background. Maybe his family had other aspirations
Although it should be noted he went by "Ollie". Maybe that sounds considerably less posh.

 

[Takhisis]

(Kevin and Tracey also of Irish origin! I won't pretend to have a coherent explanation but there is definitely some sort of Thing at play in which names either become popular with and/or become identified with poor urban whites, i.e. "white trash".)

Possibly from a lot of Irish migrating to the UK in the 10th and 20th centuries as cheap manual labour which obviously meant they weren't posh?

 

[amadeus]

There are names in Japan too associated, perhaps not necessarily with low-class but more low-sense; these are called “kira-kira names” (kira-kira means to sparkle) or “DQN” names, with the latter referring to a TV show from the ‘90s that I guess dealt with a lot of teen pregnancies as a backstory?

The premise anyway is that while the choice of Japanese characters are restricted in names, there is no formal code restricting how they are read. Imagine in the English-speaking world if someone spells their name B-I-L-L but then tells you the pronunciation is actually “Rosebud.”

It’s something to tread lightly on though because Japan also has broad defamation laws, so calling someone “DQN” could be considered slander! I don’t know if that’s actually been decided by the courts, but one thing that has is that while there is no written code restricting parents’ choice the Nagoya High Court has struck down names that were considered harmful to a child’s development.

 

[AmazonQueen]

The english analogue would be something like Oliver

(jk, I just knew someone called Oliver, and he was white trash)

The English analogue would be Kevin.
Heres the Harry Enfield character Kevin becoming a teenager

and the Rik Mayall character Kevin Turvey

 

[Kyriakos]

^What about Collin?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

(Kevin and Tracey also of Irish origin! I won't pretend to have a coherent explanation but there is definitely some sort of Thing at play in which names either become popular with and/or become identified with poor urban whites, i.e. "white trash".)

Poor urban whites...

I've just remembered that one of the second-tier characters on the soap opera One Life to Live (which I watched, off and on, for about 15 years) was Kevin Buchanan, eldest son of Victoria Lord Buchanan (with a bunch of other last names besides), whose family owned the town's major newspaper. This family was one of the three wealthiest in town, and Kevin Buchanan was never poor and never had to wonder where his next meal was coming from (though the actors who played him might have had to; there were a lot of different Kevins over the years as some actors quit or were fired for whatever reason).

As for "Oliver"...

Yeah, it doesn't appear to be a respectable name in Dickens' England.

 

[Gelion]

One of them is "Kevin".

Oh no.... I actually liked "Home Alone"...

 

[Traitorfish]

The Oliver I had the ill fortune to meet was actually from a working class background. Maybe his family had other aspirations
Although it should be noted he went by "Ollie". Maybe that sounds considerably less posh.

"Ollie" would stereotypically read as posher than plain "Oliver", although that might be a more recent development.

Possibly from a lot of Irish migrating to the UK in the 10th and 20th centuries as cheap manual labour which obviously meant they weren't posh?

For sure, the Irish origin of many "chav names" is connected with the historical low status of anything Irish in Britain. The trick is that it doesn't seem to be 1:1 relationship; a name like "Liam" or "Keiran" achieves these associations, but "Fergal" or "Dara" do not. So there's some mechanism by which low-status names are probably Irish, but Irish names are not necessarily low-status.

As for "Oliver"...

Yeah, it doesn't appear to be a respectable name in Dickens' England.

But consider that Oliver is revealed to be the estranged son of a wealthy family. "Oliver" appears to have been chosen as a name that would pass for both a street urchin and a little lord, where "Jack" might pass for the former and not the latter, and "Horatio" the latter but not the former.

Also, I'd hazard that if the class-differentiation we're in names really does have a strong ethnic component, we wouldn't expect it to become evident in London until the influx of Irish migrants which doesn't really get underway until about a decade after Oliver Twist was published. At this stage, everyone is probably drawing on the same stock of old English names, with whatever class-differentiation existed coming from the fashion for classical or chivalric names among wealthy families.

 

[Ajidica]

A stereotypical "white trash" male name would be something like "Gavin", "Liam" or "Keiran". (The non-English origins of these names is not a coincidence.)

Hilariously, those names would all be considered quite posh in America.

"Kevin" is a pretty normal name over here. "Low class" names for guys tend to be Tyler/Skyler/Kyler/Ryler variations, with girls as some variation of Becka/Becky or Brittney.
Then of course there is the whole thing with a lot of black communities choosing interesting names. Two examples immortalized in Freakonomics being La-a (pronounced Ladasha) and Abcedia (per the authors, based on the first five letters of the alphabet).

 

[amadeus]

Liam was actually the most popular name for baby boys in 2020.

The Social Security Administration has a list online.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/babynames/

Edit: also any name that has -ayden reminds me of Eiden, the electronics store I used to sometimes shop at when I lived in Aichi years ago.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Oliver has actually been the most popular boy's name in England and Wales every year since 2013.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...irths/bulletins/babynamesenglandandwales/2019

I don't think it has ever been a "chav" name here. Wayne, Darren, Shane all are.
Any name taken from pop culture runs the risk of short-lived popularity and looking very dated in years to come. Dua and Kylo from current popular names may run that risk.

 

[Traitorfish]

"Low class" names for guys tend to be Tyler/Skyler/Kyler/Ryler variations, with girls as some variation of Becka/Becky or Brittney.

I might be off the mark, here, but my impression is that those would have been considered preppy/high-status names maybe twenty years ago?

 

[Kyriakos]

Google tells me that the most posh names are Juniper and Jovi
Assuming that "Jovi" is Jovian, it should be very posh. I'd have expected also Dorian and Julian to be there.

 

[Naskra]

For 75 years after Queensberry no English child was christened "Oscar". "Monica" is having similar impact.