CavLancer
This aint fertilizer
Just want to know what you know. For what I know the Ruble, the currency of the USSR, was not usable for trade, but I don't know why or how that came to be. Anyone? Did the rest of NATO trade in Rubles?
US and the rest of NATO trade with the USSR
- Thread starter CavLancer
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Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I have no knowledge of this subject but I'm going to hazard that the Ruble wasn't part of Bretton Woods.
That and they were mostly technologically behind so it's not like you gaining commercial access to anything you couldn't already buy.
That and they were mostly technologically behind so it's not like you gaining commercial access to anything you couldn't already buy.
Timsup2nothin
Deity
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I think that trade was done, as usual, in the currency of the people with the tech.
You want these machines, we only take payment in marks. You need marks, we will buy your resources, but of course since the need is on you we won't pay a fair price.
Pretty much the same arrangement the US has with their pet oil producers.
CavLancer
This aint fertilizer
I see, thanks. I read somewhere ages ago that the FRG would offer trade for GDR citizens caught escaping, can you confirm this?
The FRG paid to have political prisoners released all the time, especially in later decades. Not just caught escapees, but for instance also general political dissidents and families of those who managed to escape.
But those deals were with the GDR of course, not the USSR. The East Mark was probably worth even less than the Ruble (I don't have any info on that though), and East Germany had less access to resources so they depended on this source of D-Marks for imports. By the end prisoner exports to the west had almost taken the form of a commercial model.
But those deals were with the GDR of course, not the USSR. The East Mark was probably worth even less than the Ruble (I don't have any info on that though), and East Germany had less access to resources so they depended on this source of D-Marks for imports. By the end prisoner exports to the west had almost taken the form of a commercial model.
hobbsyoyo
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I'm sure. Except barter omits currency. As mentioned in the post.
chijohnaok
King
CavLancer, there was a secret "trade" program between the FRG and the country of Romania where the FRG provided cash and trade goods (probably totalling in the hundreds of millions of Deutchmarks) to the Romanian government in exchange for granting emigration visas for ethnic Germans that were living in Romania. The FRG was basically "buying" these ethnic Germans out of Romania's dictatorial Communism.
There was a film documentary released in 2014 about this:
Trading Germans
A YouTube trailer about the documentary:
Link to video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzusIzTl0SY
The FRG's point person for this was Heinz Günther Hüsch. Between 1968-1989 he had between 600-1000 meetings with Romanian government officials. He would fly to Romania with a suitcase full of Deutschmarks and carried a pistol with him for his own safety. His efforts led to the release of more than 226,000 ethnic Germans from Romania.
I suppose that it is possible that the FRG had a similar program with the governments of other Warsaw Pact countries.
I do know that the FRG had a long time program where it would accept ethnic Germans from other countries and grant them citizenship. I think more than 1 million ethnic Germans from the Soviet Union/Russia migrated to Germany in this way. I'm not sure that the Russians demanded the same sort of bribes, i mean compensation, that the Romanians managed to extract from the FRG.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
When I lived in communist Poland the currency was of course the Zloty.
However, we had PEWEX stores in the country that sold Legos and other such western things - and only accepted American $ as payment. Or maybe Zlotys as well? Either way, they definitely accepted USD$, so for some reason that currency was something some people had on them.
So I wouldn't be surprised if trade was mostly done using USD$. But that is a pure guess.
However, we had PEWEX stores in the country that sold Legos and other such western things - and only accepted American $ as payment. Or maybe Zlotys as well? Either way, they definitely accepted USD$, so for some reason that currency was something some people had on them.
So I wouldn't be surprised if trade was mostly done using USD$. But that is a pure guess.
The tricky part with the Ruble was that because it was not a hard currency and worked in a largely closed economy, it had different worth outside the country and inside the country. While outside the country it was hardly worth the paper it was printed on, inside the country it was quite something. Some prices I remember:
- Milk (1L, 3,2% fat) 0.36; (and you got about 0.10 back when you returned the bottle);
- bread (wheat, 0.75kg) 0.16 or 0.18 or 0.20 (depending on the sort);
- ice cream 0.20 (1 portion) or 0.48 (0.5kg);
- transportation in Moscow (1 entry in a bus, or a trolleybus, or a tram, or in metro - independent of commuting time or distance) 0.05 Rub;
- cinema ticket (kid's) 0.15 or 0.20 depending on the place;
- a hard candy 0.01 - those were often given to kids in shops for the nickel back.
- carbonated water (200mL glass) 0.001, or 0.003 with syrup.
Attention:
- a toy car from Eastern Germany (analogue of Playmobil (with a human figure and accessories), only better): 7.00
- that costed a fortune, really.For reference:
My mom's and dad's salaries (both were uni lecturers) were 120 and 130 respectively. Did quite fine.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
My mom and dad were both teachers at the local elementary school. They spent 50% of their income on rent and a lot of the rest on food. And the thing with important foodstuffs (like meat, milk, etc.) was that it came in once a month, and you had to line up early each month if you wanted some. You also got food stamps each month, and had to use those to buy a limited amount of meat and milk and whatever else.
My dad liked to travel and one time he went to Moscow. Came back with some sort of a Soviet moon car thingy. Was pretty cool, you would put blocks in it, and that would tell/program it and tell it how to move once you turned it on. I have no idea how much it cost, though.
The best gifts he brought back were always from Austria. Stuff like chocolates and bananas. No bananas were available to buy in stores at the time, so whenever I went outside with a banana (of course I would, I wanted to show off my western spoils and be the popular kid for a change), DOZENS of kids would follow me. One of them even took my banana peel after I was done with it and ate it. I will never forget that.
Communism.... never again..
My dad liked to travel and one time he went to Moscow. Came back with some sort of a Soviet moon car thingy. Was pretty cool, you would put blocks in it, and that would tell/program it and tell it how to move once you turned it on. I have no idea how much it cost, though.
The best gifts he brought back were always from Austria. Stuff like chocolates and bananas. No bananas were available to buy in stores at the time, so whenever I went outside with a banana (of course I would, I wanted to show off my western spoils and be the popular kid for a change), DOZENS of kids would follow me. One of them even took my banana peel after I was done with it and ate it. I will never forget that.
Communism.... never again..
What can I say... I'm sorry. If it makes it easier, we had it full time in the early 90s. So, I suggest it's a draw, OK?
This one?
Spoiler :
Groovy. You are lucky. Well, chocolate was available to me (not every day though, but still). While bananas... What's that?
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Whoa, that moon car thing almost looks like the one I had! Not quite (from what I remember), but close. Mine had a thing in the front where you could insert small blocks, though, from what I remember. It could have been a spinny thingy like in the picture, but larger. Something like that.
The one good thing that came out of communism for me and my family is that (I think) we aren't spoiled. We are well off enough now here in Canada, but we try not to forget where we started.
The one good thing that came out of communism for me and my family is that (I think) we aren't spoiled. We are well off enough now here in Canada, but we try not to forget where we started.
Strange, that's not a lot for lecturers - my parents had about the same (probably a bit more), but they were ordinary workers in provincial town.
You didn't have free apartment?
We also had food stamps and lines. But only after 1988 and the worst part of it was after "communism", in 1991-1992.
I guess everybody was supposed to get pretty much the same. That was what the whole thing was supposed to be about actually, IIRC.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
We had martial law during a lot of the 80s, with tanks in the streets and stuff (due to solidarity, general unrest, threats of a soviet invasion, etc.). Not sure if it's related, but I always remember my mom having to use food stamps, throughout the 80s. By 86-87 we were gone (and in West Germany eating nutella)
The apartment was in a ugly commie block and had 1 bedroom. For a family of 5. My parents signed up for that thing over a decade before we moved in, and based on what they said they had to put all their life savings into it.
I don't remember anyone having access to free apartments, but I mean, I was young, so I didn't have a proper understanding of how things work at the time anyway, and might be mistaken about something here. But I do remember my parents telling me how much of their income goes towards rent and it was "about half". I'm going to ask them again next time I see them.
The apartment was in a ugly commie block and had 1 bedroom. For a family of 5. My parents signed up for that thing over a decade before we moved in, and based on what they said they had to put all their life savings into it.
I don't remember anyone having access to free apartments, but I mean, I was young, so I didn't have a proper understanding of how things work at the time anyway, and might be mistaken about something here. But I do remember my parents telling me how much of their income goes towards rent and it was "about half". I'm going to ask them again next time I see them.
