[RD] US physical currency should be completely redesigned.

[innonimatu]

Fine words and noble sentiments mean little if the speaker is unwilling to stake even a fraction of his wealth or status on it.

I don't disagree that Jefferson had some impact on early abolition. He was, for example, fairly influential in guaranteeing that slavery was prohibited in the Northwest Territory- indeed, he'd wanted to extent it to the Southwest Territory- and that, as a result, it was mostly populated by Northerners (and some anti-slavery Southerners), and so maintained the prohibition when broken up into states. But Ohio was a long way from Monticello, and it cost him little to frustrate the ambitions of a few Kentucky gentlemen.

I'm usually uncompromising in this kind of issue, but here I believe that an observed today must cut the likes of Jefferson some slack. We simply could not play is role if the staked is wealth and status on acting the way you demand. He'd have marked himself as a "radical" before his contemporaries, and a poorer lower status one also. He'd lose influence and probably fail to even achieve what he did for abolition. Can you be sure that he acted as he did because he valued his comfort above his principles, or might he had acted that way because he believed it to be the most successful way to advance the "noble sentiments"?

 

[Traitorfish]

I'm usually uncompromising in this kind of issue, but here I believe that an observed today must cut the likes of Jefferson some slack. We simply could not play is role if the staked is wealth and status on acting the way you demand. He'd have marked himself as a "radical" before his contemporaries, and a poorer lower status one also. He'd lose influence and probably fail to even achieve what he did for abolition. Can you be sure that he acted as he did because he valued his comfort above his principles, or might he had acted that way because he believed it to be the most successful way to advance the "noble sentiments"?

I don't think there was actually any practical requirement that Jefferson maintain the lifestyle of a Virginia aristocrat, no, or at least not by the time of his presidency. In his early career, you could plausibly argue, his political influence depended on his position within the social network of Tidewater gentlemen, and manumission would have excluded him from that company. But by the 1780s, he was known primarily as a statesmen and diplomat, and by the election of 1800 he had refashioned himself as a populist. At that point, his slaves were not a source of status or influence but only of wealth and comfort; a man of more staunchly republicans may have endured such hardships for the sake of advancing the change he wanted to see in the world. He didn't even free his slaves on his deathbed, which itself came two decades after he had retired to private life.

Thomas Jefferson for whom principle and practice often found themselves at odd. He wrote Jeremiads about the dangers of empire, and then bought half a continent from Napoleon. He argued for free trade, and then imposed political embargos on both Britain and France. He opposed foreign entanglements, and invaded Tunisia. He supported the peaceful integration of Indians into the United States, then laid the legal and administrative framework for the Trail of Tears. He propounded the separation of races, and then shtupped his slaves. Whether he was a hypocrite or a pragmatist, and he was probably some measure of both, you can't simply take his ideals in isolation of his actions, because it is not his ideals that appear on coinage.

 

[innonimatu]

Interesting. I know little about the details of the united states' history. Learning something new here!

 

[warpus]

American currency is the weirdest and least visually and physically useful currency on the planet, that I've come across at least. It also looks old and boring and stale.

But Americans seem to love it, so whatever. When I'm travelling through foreign lands I suck it up and fully dive into the culture of the locals. This means accepting American money for what it is, and putting up with its inefficiencies temporarily while I travel through American lands. It makes me feel more American to have to put up with it and all their other cultural quirks. After all that's one of the main reasons why I travel - to experience other cultures, including the things they do well, and the things they do that really suck.

Americans are stubborn and have an attachment to symbolism, so it will probably take a while for their currency to update to modern standards. Heck, their vendors are decades behind implementation of the credit card chip. It's a backwards place in many ways when you travel through their lands, but that's what makes travel so exciting - leaving your modern comforts at home and embracing different and/or victorian ways of doing things.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

And the vendors who do accept chip cards do not accept PINs which undermines the whole point of the chip+PIN setup.

I haven't read through the entire thread but has the anomaly that is the US Penny come up? The major lobby for it is the company that provides the metal to the mint to make it and people who want to keep it for sentimental reasons. There is no practical use for the penny any more but it manages to cling on for stupid reasons.

 

[Traitorfish]

And the vendors who do accept chip cards do not accept PINs which undermines the whole point of the chip+PIN setup.

I haven't read through the entire thread but has the anomaly that is the US Penny come up? The major lobby for it is the company that provides the metal to the mint to make it and people who want to keep it for sentimental reasons. There is no practical use for the penny any more but it manages to cling on for stupid reasons.

I suppose the big reason it hangs on is that there's no political capital in removing it. It's easy to lobby for something if popular opinion ranges from support to indifference.

Like Israel, or the British monarchy.

 

[onejayhawk]

And the vendors who do accept chip cards do not accept PINs which undermines the whole point of the chip+PIN setup.

I haven't read through the entire thread but has the anomaly that is the US Penny come up? The major lobby for it is the company that provides the metal to the mint to make it and people who want to keep it for sentimental reasons. There is no practical use for the penny any more but it manages to cling on for stupid reasons.

It is a constant struggle to find a metal cheap enough to use as the penny. Copper is less than 1% in new coins, just enough for color. Yet, more pennies are minted than all other coins combined. Penny hording is a recognized pass time. The cheapest of them is worth more than ten times face value.

As you say, it makes no sense. The penny is not the basis of our monetary system. That has always been the dollar. We stopped minting silver dollars nearly a century ago. We could easily run things with just nickels, dimes, and quarters. Let the collectors see if the see if their investment actually pays off.

J

 

[warpus]

We got rid of the penny here in Canada a couple years ago and it's been going great. Maybe next we can get rid of the nickel. It's kind of useless too.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I want triangular coins!

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I want triangular coins!

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

And others are willing to pay to see it, as long as they can pay in triangular coins.

 

[Perfection]

And the vendors who do accept chip cards do not accept PINs which undermines the whole point of the chip+PIN setup.

I haven't read through the entire thread but has the anomaly that is the US Penny come up? The major lobby for it is the company that provides the metal to the mint to make it and people who want to keep it for sentimental reasons. There is no practical use for the penny any more but it manages to cling on for stupid reasons.

I put every penny I encounter into a 5 gallon glass water bottle. I want to see if I fill it up before I die.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Yankee greenbacks are retro art deco and all of it is lathered in disease, filth and prohibited substances. It's rough texture makes sure it retains all of that good juicy goodness. How can you not love it? It's pretty much the most moniest money in the history of money.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I put every penny I encounter into a 5 gallon glass water bottle. I want to see if I fill it up before I die.

Be careful. A friend of mine was keeping change in a glass water bottle like that and it blew up. Near as he could figure the bottom of the bottle has that slight indentation and the weight of the coins was basically trying to "push it flat" against the table it was on, and at some point the long term stress accumulated in the glass and "pow." It didn't really do any harm, but it went off in the middle of the night and he said that he and his wife both nearly wet the bed because the sound was absolutely astounding. They both thought a car had crashed into their house, at least.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Plot twist:
It was the cat.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Plot twist:
It was the cat.

They had a five gallon water bottle that was almost full of change. If it was "the cat" it would have to have been a full grown Bengal tiger.

 

[Perfection]

Be careful. A friend of mine was keeping change in a glass water bottle like that and it blew up. Near as he could figure the bottom of the bottle has that slight indentation and the weight of the coins was basically trying to "push it flat" against the table it was on, and at some point the long term stress accumulated in the glass and "pow." It didn't really do any harm, but it went off in the middle of the night and he said that he and his wife both nearly wet the bed because the sound was absolutely astounding. They both thought a car had crashed into their house, at least.

I had a glass water bottle as a kid that broke when I tried to put marbles in it, but it had much thinner walls. I would imagine the one I have could take being completely filled without any issues (it's some heavy glassware). But we shall see!

 

[warpus]

And others are willing to pay to see it, as long as they can pay in triangular coins.

Triangular coins wouldn't roll away when you drop them. But they would be pointier

 

[metatron]

The rule here regarding putting people on the money is that they have to have been both Canadian, and dead for at least 25 years. So that lets out a lot of people, such as Roberta Bondar (our first female astronaut) and Kim Campbell (our first - and so far only - female Prime Minister).

There was an online vote of female candidates for being on the money, and someone was finally chosen. I'm not sure if that will actually happen, if the next banknote design occurs after the next election. I think it's safe to say that if the Reformacons win in 2019, any plans to put women on the money will not be followed through. Harper's no longer officially leading that party (many are suspicious of how much backroom input he might still have), but his replacement is basically Harper 2.0.

[I'm quoting Valka here for context. Well, and for credit.]

Ok, there's news, but to put them in proper context i have to talk about Canada.
In a critical fashion.
So... be warned.
I'm going to do it now:

1. Canadian paper money is pretty bad, too. It's five notes, with the Queen on one and the 1st, 7th, 8th and 10th Canadian Prime Ministers on the others.
Here's a few remarks on them:

Spoiler :

This is a very polite and mellow Canadian account. I would put this to a somewhat sharper point.
The fourth guy is no prize either.

2. But! Canada is doing the right thing.
In december the choice for that new bill that Valka talked about was announced, in march the bill was revealed, and it's wonderful, amazeballs (well unless there's something wrong with this lady, which right now i have no reason to believe).
And if i understand everything correctly this new 10 dollar bill will be introduced on such a timetable that all this will have allready started when - potentially - Conservatives would come back to power after a - hypothetical - electoral success in 2019.
Behold:

So, just to bring everybody (i.e. fellow Europeans) up to speed:
The lady is one Viola Desmond, a "mixed-race" woman from Halifax (thus deemed "black").
She was a hair- and skin-care professional, beautistician etc.
She had a beauty parlor. And because she had to leave Halifax to learn this trade in the first place (because discrimination) and she apparently was upset about that she founded an institute teaching this stuff. And she produced her own beauty products. You know how it is an item of social justice whinery how make-up was all focused on white women only until - apparently - yesterday? Well, it wasn't in Nova Scotia. Because she and her institute and the graduates from her institute.
And in 1946 she stumbled into refusing to leave the "white" section of a movie theater, got arrested, convicted for evasion of the provincial sales tax (this is literally about a single cent), was pardoned in 2015 (fifty years after her death).
The reverse shows the Canadian Museum for Human Rights in Winnipeg. Actually the CMHR has a fair ammount of issues, but i suppose it's the thought that counts.
And it's certainly better than this symbolically self-undermining train business.
​

And because having one vertical bill and four horizontal bills would be odd any future government is pre-commited to redesigning the rest, with all sorts of people leaning in to suggest new and alternative persons to feature.
So: Yay for Canada!

Other than that things are rather quiet: Apparently nobody knows whether Trump and Mnuchin will follow through with Tubman. I certainly have lost track.
And despite my wise council we still have meaningless money with fantasy bridges and stick that bird on everything.

PS:
I have no idea what civver's problem is with the color scheme. Looks like perfectly fine money to me.
(Actually i have an idea, i suppose his point was "money be green", but, well, rhetorics happened).

 

[Valka D'Ur]

[I'm quoting Valka here for context. Well, and for credit.]

Ok, there's news, but to put them in proper context i have to talk about Canada.
In a critical fashion.
So... be warned.
I'm going to do it now:

1. Canadian paper money is pretty bad, too. It's five notes, with the Queen on one and the 1st, 7th, 8th and 10th Canadian Prime Ministers on the others.
Here's a few remarks on them:

Spoiler :

This is a very polite and mellow Canadian account. I would put this to a somewhat sharper point.
The fourth guy is no prize either.

2. But! Canada is doing the right thing.
In december the choice for that new bill that Valka talked about was announced, in march the bill was revealed, and it's wonderful, amazeballs (well unless there's something wrong with this lady, which right now i have no reason to believe).
And if i understand everything correctly this new 10 dollar bill will be introduced on such a timetable that all this will have allready started when - potentially - Conservatives would come back to power after a - hypothetical - electoral success in 2019.
Behold:

So, just to bring everybody (i.e. fellow Europeans) up to speed:
The lady is one Viola Desmond, a "mixed-race" woman from Halifax (thus deemed "black").
She was a hair- and skin-care professional, beautistician etc.
She had a beauty parlor. And because she had to leave Halifax to learn this trade in the first place (because discrimination) and she apparently was upset about that she founded an institute teaching this stuff. And she produced her own beauty products. You know how it is an item of social justice whinery how make-up was all focused on white women only until - apparently - yesterday? Well, it wasn't in Nova Scotia. Because she and her institute and the graduates from her institute.
And in 1946 she stumbled into refusing to leave the "white" section of a movie theater, got arrested, convicted for evasion of the provincial sales tax (this is literally about a single cent), was pardoned in 2015 (fifty years after her death).
The reverse shows the Canadian Museum for Human Rights in Winnipeg. Actually the CMHR has a fair ammount of issues, but i suppose it's the thought that counts.
And it's certainly better than this symbolically self-undermining train business.
​

And because having one vertical bill and four horizontal bills would be odd any future government is pre-commited to redesigning the rest, with all sorts of people leaning in to suggest new and alternative persons to feature.
So: Yay for Canada!

Other than that things are rather quiet: Apparently nobody knows whether Trump and Mnuchin will follow through with Tubman. I certainly have lost track.
And despite my wise council we still have meaningless money with fantasy bridges and stick that bird on everything.

PS:
I have no idea what civver's problem is with the color scheme. Looks like perfectly fine money to me.
(Actually i have an idea, i suppose his point was "money be green", but, well, rhetorics happened).

You could have done this post without the snide attitude.

The new $10 is going to feel odd at first, with the vertical design, and there are a lot of people who see nothing wrong parroting the line of "but we already have a woman on the money - the Queen's a woman!".

Note that these tend to be the same people who whine and rant about the monarchy and how much better off we'd be if we booted them out of our constitution after the Queen dies.

What's going to be really weird for everyone born after 1952 is seeing Charles on the money.