US 'plans to scrap missile shield'

[RedRalph]

from Irish Independent

Moving to avoid a rift with Moscow, Barack Obama has "all but abandoned" plans to locate parts of a US missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic.

A leading Polish newspaper claimed yesterday that the Pentagon has been asked to explore switching planned interceptor rocket sites from the two east European states to Israel, Turkey, the Balkans or to mobile launchers on warships.

Asked about the claim in the Warsaw daily 'Gazeta Wyborcza', a Pentagon spokesman last night said the missile shield plans were still being reviewed. "No final decisions have been made regarding missile defence in Europe," he said.

The threats and rhetoric surrounding the missile defence plans, a key plank of defence policy under the Bush administration, contributed as much as any other issue to the souring of relations between Moscow and Washington in recent years.

In 2007, then-President Vladimir Putin compared the plans to the Cuban missile crisis of 1962. He warned that if the plan went ahead, Russia would be forced to point nuclear missiles at European cities. Since then, the Kremlin has brushed aside repeated US claims that the shield would be aimed not at Russia but at Iran, North Korea and other rogue states. Moscow has insisted that the shield's deployment would compromise its security.

With the Obama administration's promise to "reset" relations with Russia, came the US president's decision to launch a strategic review of the defence shield. Controversy erupted earlier this year when rumours surfaced of a secret letter written by Mr Obama to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev allegedly hinting that the White House would back away if Russia offered help on reining in Iran's nuclear ambitions.


Rhetoric

Publicly, both sides have insisted that there is no horse-trading to be done over the issue. At a summit in Moscow last month Mr Obama promised only to take Russia's concerns into account. This was nevertheless a marked change of rhetoric. The Bush administration had repeatedly stated that what Russia thought was irrelevant. (© Independent News Service)

- Katherine Butler and Shaun Walker in Warsaw

Good news! Anyone care to speculate on what Russia is going to do in return? There's no way the US did this unilaterally, maybe Russia has agreed to put more pressure on DPRK?

 

[Tee Kay]

Perhaps Russia will remove their missiles from Nicarag

I've said too much.

 

[Dragonlord]

I fail to see how a missile defense system 'compromises Russia's security' - unless they are still thinking in Cold War terms of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction for the post-Cold War kiddies here)..... the twisted logic of not allowing the 'other side' a defence lest one's own attack capabilities be degraded and thus opening oneself to attack.
Comparing it to the Cuban crisis is also stupid - those were offensive missiles, not defensive. A defensive shield can't threaten Russia - unless they want to hold open the option of attacking themselves.

I think even the most America-phobic recognize that the US would never initiate a nuclear attack on Russia - but Putin protesting a missile defence makes me wonder about his mindset.

I could understand Russia protesting a missile shield as an insult, implying that one is needed against Russia, but to protest it as compromising their 'security'... well

 

[Tee Kay]

I fail to see how a missile defense system 'compromises Russia's security' - unless they are still thinking in Cold War terms of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction for the post-Cold War kiddies here)..... the twisted logic of not allowing the 'other side' a defence lest one's own attack capabilities be degraded and thus opening oneself to attack.

Pretty much. Just because the Soviet Union fell doesn't mean the Cold War is over.

Also, Russia is touchy that they're being built in their former client states.

 

[DinoDoc]

maybe Russia has agreed to put more pressure on DPRK?

We can't even get them to put pressure on Iran and you think they are suddenly going to play hardball with North Korea?

 

[otago]

Well we do not want to see a country like Iran which has religion so much to the fore having nukes do we.

Of course Israel is not a country where religion plays much of a part in it's politics is it ?

 

[RedRalph]

We can't even get them to put pressure on Iran and you think they are suddenly going to play hardball with North Korea?

Definitely. Russia is far far closer to Iran than it is to DPRK

 

[Tee Kay]

We can't even get them to put pressure on Iran and you think they are suddenly going to play hardball with North Korea?

North Korea is much more isolationist, destabilizing, and poor than Iran ever was.

Well we do not want to see a country like Iran which has religion so much to the fore having nukes do we.

Of course Israel is not a country where religion plays much of a part in it's politics is it ?

Unlike Iran, Israel isn't theocratic. It's more nationalism.

 

[uppi]

I fail to see how a missile defense system 'compromises Russia's security' - unless they are still thinking in Cold War terms of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction for the post-Cold War kiddies here)

They still do, and righly so. Europeans and Americans are no longer scared of Russia's conventional military. Their only real defense is the ability to nuke everyone they want. Take that ability away and the danger of invasion increases. If it wasn't for MAD Russia would already have suffered at least one large war in the last 60 years.

The worst thing that could happen would be a winnable nuclear war. Thus missile defense system are a threat to a country with nuclear weapons.

Of course the planned defense system wouldn't have the capabilities to really threaten Russia, but it could be easily extended over time until it does. Aditionally it threatens nuclear disarming, because without any missile defense, you need fewer nuclear weapons for defense.

 

[DinoDoc]

North Korea is much more isolationist, destabilizing, and poor than Iran ever was.

Russia isn't the one with the big stick to dealing with the North and never has been. China is and so far they haven't seen any reason to crack the whip. Russia on the other hand is building Iran's nuke program for them so maybe you can see why I might think them more important in that area.

 

[onedreamer]

I fail to see how a missile defense system 'compromises Russia's security'

ahah, well you know, all the nuclear programs exist for defense purpouses. Israel would like to nuke Iran as a preemptive, defensive action.
I actually fail to see why the USA should build a defensive shield in Poland, if not just to upset Russia.

Good news! Anyone care to speculate on what Russia is going to do in return? There's no way the US did this unilaterally, maybe Russia has agreed to put more pressure on DPRK?

Russia won't do anything in change. However they might NOT do something they would have done in case the USA wouldn't stop this silly program.

 

[Dragonlord]

They still do, and righly so. Europeans and Americans are no longer scared of Russia's conventional military. Their only real defense is the ability to nuke everyone they want. Take that ability away and the danger of invasion increases. If it wasn't for MAD Russia would already have suffered at least one large war in the last 60 years.

The worst thing that could happen would be a winnable nuclear war. Thus missile defense system are a threat to a country with nuclear weapons.

Of course the planned defense system wouldn't have the capabilities to really threaten Russia, but it could be easily extended over time until it does. Aditionally it threatens nuclear disarming, because without any missile defense, you need fewer nuclear weapons for defense.

*sigh* I assume you're Russian? - your profile doesn't say.

IMHO, there is absolutely zero chance that Western European democracies will ever attack Russia in the foreseeable future, nor allow such an attack to be launched from their territory by the US (assuming they would want to). So much for a conventional attack.

This is typical Russian paranoia at work - understandable after being attacked in WWII, maybe, but still unjustified in this day and age. No Western politician today could ever get public support for attacking Russia in a conventional war, much less nuclear, and w/o public support war could not be declared and the army probably wouldn't obey such an order. Also, why would we want to start a war in the first place? Sacrifice thousands or millions of lives to conquer Russia - to what end?

These times are long behind us .... thank God.

 

[onedreamer]

besides the two strongest mainland european countries already tried to conquer Russia, with embarassing results.

 

[onedreamer]

Well we do not want to see a country like Iran which has religion so much to the fore having nukes do we.

wait, I recall a coupla western countries having God mentioned in their national hymn.

 

[Dragonlord]

I actually fail to see why the USA should build a defensive shield in Poland, if not just to upset Russia.

Actually, if many Russians think like uppi, seeing nukes as a valid method of 'defence' against conventional attack, then they should get that defensive shield up as quickly as possible!

 

[Snorrius]

IMHO, there is absolutely zero chance that Western European democracies will ever attack Russia in the foreseeable future, nor allow such an attack to be launched from their territory by the US (assuming they would want to). So much for a conventional attack.

Western European democracies maybe not. But Noth American one (using its vassals in Europe) may.

This is typical Russian paranoia at work - understandable after being attacked in WWII, maybe, but still unjustified in this day and age. No Western politician today could ever get public support for attacking Russia in a conventional war, much less nuclear, and w/o public support war could not be declared and the army probably wouldn't obey such an order. Also, why would we want to start a war in the first place? Sacrifice thousands or millions of lives to conquer Russia - to what end?
These times are long behind us .... thank God.

Long behind us, you say? There are plenty of people still alive who was born in the times which you claim to be long behind. As for reason "to conquer Russia" - there are plenty (not applicable now but could become valid in future), but actually it is not Europe whom Russia afraid but the Empire of Good.

 

[Flying Pig]

Vassals in Europe? That all finished when the wall came down, remember?

 

[onedreamer]

Actually, if many Russians think like uppi, seeing nukes as a valid method of 'defence' against conventional attack, then they should get that defensive shield up as quickly as possible!

come on, if they had set it up ASAP in the USA I doubt that Russia would have had a say in the matter. The whole matter is just one of many blatant provocations from Bush administration, and one of many moves to put european countries against each other politically. Luckily it seems that the main countries in Europe have started to take step in their own direction instead of just licking USA butts, as we could witness with Sarkozy ignoring Bush (********) requests during the crisis in Georgia.

Vassals in Europe? That all finished when the wall came down, remember?

he meant the american vassals in europe, not the russian ones -_-". Italy just to name one.

 

[Patroklos]

Good news! Anyone care to speculate on what Russia is going to do in return?

Absolutely nothing. Well, gloat probably about how Obama and the US are their . .. .. .. .. .. It was a ll faux outrage on the Russian side anyway as any sane person knows.

However, I have no confidence in the article. The missile shield is already based on warships, and located missiles in Isreal!?!?!

I actually fail to see why the USA should build a defensive shield in Poland, if not just to upset Russia.

Because you are ignorant of geometry.

come on, if they had set it up ASAP in the USA I doubt that Russia would have had a say in the matter.

Again, you demonstrate your ignorance of geometry. Located in Poland, the only place that these missiles could defend is Europe. The fact that we have left open and completely undefended the cross pole missile routes that Russia would use to attack the US is undeniable proof that this has nothing at all to do with Russia. What is the US's sinister plan, to defend Europe against nuclear attack while we let ourselves be obliterated? Yeah, thats Russias thought process, I kid you not

 

[RedRalph]

Absolutely nothing. Well, gloat probably about how Obama and the US are their . .. .. .. .. .. It was a ll faux outrage on the Russian side anyway as any sane person knows.

However, I have no confidence in the article. The missile shield is already based on warships, and located missiles in Isreal!?!?!

I'd like to think that was true Patroklos, but realistically the US got some quid pro quo from Russia for this. something to do with DPRK or Iran in all likelyhood.