Videogamer GDC Article

[The_J]

Follow the link:

http://www.videogamer.com/pc/civili...v_gods_and_kings_details_revealed_at_gdc.html

Moderator Action: Threads merged.

 

[AriochIV]

It does appear now that there is literally a new Era for the "Great War". Which is a little odd, to name an era after a historical event (which won't happen in your game) rather than a technology, but I'm not sure what else one would call that era.

It's not big deal to allow limited stacking, if you use the Civ I system where all the units in a stack are destroyed if the defending unit is destroyed. That way you can move troops through a bottleneck but take significant risk in doing so.

True 1UPT is more tactically interesting, but let's face it... the AI will never be smart enough to use it correctly.

 

[MkLh]

It's not big deal to allow limited stacking, if you use the Civ I system where all the units in a stack are destroyed if the defending unit is destroyed. That way you can move troops through a bottleneck but take significant risk in doing so.

True 1UPT is more tactically interesting, but let's face it... the AI will never be smart enough to use it correctly.

I don't see how stacking you described would help AI at all. If the AI would build such a stack, it would just offer a human player a great opportunity to smash multiple AI units at once. I don't think "more flexible stacking" is anything that radical anyway.

 

[AriochIV]

I don't see how stacking you described would help AI at all. If the AI would build such a stack, it would just offer a human player a great opportunity to smash multiple AI units at once. I don't think "more flexible stacking" is anything that radical anyway.

A big problem that the AI has is getting through a restricted space. Units will head in the wrong direction trying to get around a bottleneck, or will spill out into the water. Both of which waste time giving the defender an advantage, and units on the water are very vulnerable. At least if you allow limited stacking, the AI can cram units through that narrow pass to take that city on a peninsula, even though they may take heavy casualties doing so.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

It does appear now that there is literally a new Era for the "Great War". Which is a little odd, to name an era after a historical event (which won't happen in your game) rather than a technology, but I'm not sure what else one would call that era.

Not to mention that this means that in the 20th century alone we had three significant eras in human history. Seems odd (and a little ego-centric on the part of us "moderns.")

 

[craig123]

Not to mention that this means that in the 20th century alone we had three significant eras in human history. Seems odd (and a little ego-centric on the part of us "moderns.")

Well people from the Middle Ages are free to complain if they want to...

But seriously, the pace of development in the last 200 years arguably justifies three eras.

 

[Bechhold]

So if there is a new era, Imperial era perhaps, will those civs that go into such an age be affected by change like units move further, resources have different affects, colonies are readily more accepted etc.

 

[CYZ]

Well people from the Middle Ages are free to complain if they want to...

But seriously, the pace of development in the last 200 years arguably justifies three eras.

It is a tech tree after all. In the real world the last three ages went by fast because the focus on tech was so high. In my opinion the medieval age is basicly equal to one of those three, even though it took so much longer.

 

[aziantuntija]

A big problem that the AI has is getting through a restricted space. Units will head in the wrong direction trying to get around a bottleneck, or will spill out into the water. Both of which waste time giving the defender an advantage, and units on the water are very vulnerable. At least if you allow limited stacking, the AI can cram units through that narrow pass to take that city on a peninsula, even though they may take heavy casualties doing so.

If that is you only logic to backup limited stacking, then you must realize that due to the fact that then the human player can also just stack melee units in the bottleneck and behind them just create multiple stacks of ranged units. Human player can also recycle units very effectively to keep fresh units in the frontline and thus maintain the position. I don’t see how this makes it easier for the AI to overcome such a strongly defended spot no.

Also the limited stacking would bring some weird tactics to play like the “ranged turtle”, where relatively powerful melee unit would be guarding archer and together they could be moving and shooting at the same turn. I really don’t see how these kind of tactics would be more easier to code AI to effectively use than a decent 1upt.

Only stacking that I think helps the AI is the unlimited stacking, but before going back to "my stack is bigger that your stack" -system, instead I would just like to see the 1upt AI improved over time in future civs.

But seriously, the pace of development in the last 200 years arguably justifies three eras.

Yes absolutely agree.

 

[CYZ]

If that is you only logic to backup limited stacking, then you must realize that due to the fact that then the human player can also just stack melee units in the bottleneck and behind them just create multiple stacks of ranged units. Human player can also recycle units very effectively to keep fresh units in the frontline and thus maintain the position. I don’t see how this makes it easier for the AI to overcome such a strongly defended spot no.

Also the limited stacking would bring some weird tactics to play like the “ranged turtle”, where relatively powerful melee unit would be guarding archer and together they could be moving and shooting at the same turn. I really don’t see how these kind of tactics would be more easier to code AI to effectively use than a decent 1upt.

Only stacking that I think helps the AI is the unlimited stacking, but before going back to "my stack is bigger that your stack" -system, instead I would just like to see the 1upt AI improved over time in future civs.



Yes absolutely agree.

Perhaps units can't attack when stacked?

That would still allow some turtle tactics but for your archers to actually fire they'd need space to spread out, also ending their turn apart from each other. If they want to end the next turn stacked they will not be able to fire.

That would make it more sensible already. Then there are very few reasons to stack units for non-logistic reasons. Still, I can imagine stacked cavalry on the defense, when enemies get close they move outof the stack and attack.

Another fix would be that units can't attack in the same turn they are stacked. They start the turn stacked? Can't attack the entire turn. They attack? Then they may not stack entire turn.

That would be complex but I guess it would work. If you add that all units in a stack take damage when attacked (while the attackers takes no extra damage). Then I can't think of any reason to stack for non-logistic reasons. It sounds a bit complex on paper but probably isn't ingame.

 

[Alexastor]

Instead of calling it the "Great War Era", they should call it "Modern Era" and the old one should be called "Atomic Era" or "Digital Era".

 

[anandus]

Instead of calling it the "Great War Era", they should call it "Modern Era" and the old one should be called "Atomic Era" or "Digital Era".

That sounds very sensible to me
A lot better than 'Great War Era', anyway.

 

[Uberfrog]

Instead of calling it the "Great War Era", they should call it "Modern Era" and the old one should be called "Atomic Era" or "Digital Era".

Except, you know, for the problem of calling a period of technology that is now around 100 years ago "modern".

 

[MadDjinn]

Instead of calling it the "Great War Era", they should call it "Modern Era" and the old one should be called "Atomic Era" or "Digital Era".

That sounds very sensible to me
A lot better than 'Great War Era', anyway.

a war does not make an era, even two of them.

So it's likely that it's not actually called the 'Great War Era' (capital E), which would be weird and bad.

 

[aziantuntija]

@CYZ adding that amount of rules would certainly not help the AI, nor does it make the gameplay more enjoyable for that matter. Quite the opposite I would say.

 

[bonafide11]

Except, you know, for the problem of calling a period of technology that is now around 100 years ago "modern".

The "Modern Era" doesn't mean the present, but refers to a specific era of the coming of "modernity." Many people, especially academics, refer to the current era as the "Postmodern Era."

 

[MadDjinn]

The "Modern Era" doesn't mean the present, but refers to a specific era of the coming of "modernity." Many people, especially academics, refer to the current era as the "Postmodern Era."

and they - should all be shot for doing so (mainly because it's artists, not academics that use post modern).

The 'Modern Era' is both a colloquial reference to 'now' and the period of time since the Medieval time. Ie, inclusive of Renaissance, Industrial, Atomic ages and 'right now'.

Though, for 'right now' it's better to say that we are in the Digital age or the Information age (depending on if anyone agreed that the Info. Age started after the Atomic Age, and when/if something changed to have it now be the Digital Age even though that got invented during the Information Age, etc and so on).

 

[moysturfurmer]

Maybe it's called the Great War Era because the game's dynamics make war/political blocs increasingly important. They've already noted that cliques will probably form based on the last 3 policy trees, and perhaps City State quests will get a lot more jingoistic (use a spy to assassinate Hanoi's archduke, or declare war on the two offending parties etc). I mean it's doubtful, but conjecture's fun.

 

[Gilgamesch]

The "Modern Era" doesn't mean the present, but refers to a specific era of the coming of "modernity." Many people, especially academics, refer to the current era as the "Postmodern Era."

I prefer Digital Era.
Also i hope the endless war bug will be fixed(on immortal and higher).

 

[SuperWaffle247]

I fully believe they'll come up with a good name for the new era. If not, should be easy enough to fix, I would think.