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"Vive l'Empereur!": another D+3 Succession

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by Andu Indorin, Feb 18, 2004.

  1. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    The Uneventful Reign of King Tim the Infirm

    I was going to write up a story last night, but watched the Oscars instead. I really don’t have a good angle for the story anyway, so here’s just the dirty details. Mostly focused on growing the cities and pushing out settlers. I had already played a number of turns before I saw the post about using 40% luxuries, but at least at that point, they would have increased production in a couple cities, but would have made research slower so I stayed away from that approach. With the extra production/food/gold, it might be worth it, but I had gone far enough on this approach I just kept going. What we really need is Republic so we can get enough trade for luxuries to pay off, but that is still a ways off.

    675 (Turn 0)
    -- small empire, not growing.
    -- focus on settler production to expand productivity
    -- science 105b/tech working on bronze. Options for goals are Trade or Monotheism. Think we'll go for trade first in hope of marco's and ability to build camels

    Minor tweaks:
    -- Fayette - work whale to finish settler this turn, warrior activated, sent towards GV
    -- GV - work wheat for faster food, buy 2 shields (to 30s)
    -- Random - Put worker on fur to fill food box this turn and get more beakers this turn. warrior activated, sent towards GV
    -- St. Emilion - put worker on grass to grow to size 2
    -- bourgogne- Put worker on Ox for food. clear orders of warrior to explore remainder of the "Wine and Cheese" coast
    -- Cheese - work fish for food.

    <Hit enter >

    650 (Turn 1)
    -- Mongols start oracle
    -- Fayette Settlers - worker moved to fish for food
    -- Random settled food box full, elvis hired
    -- Disorder in all cities but GV, as expected
    -- Whale spotted just outside bourgogne - good spot for next city
    -- GV work forest to get to 35s
    625 (Turn 2)
    -- rush 5s in Random (to 10)
    -- Hut spotted in polar north- wait to pop next turn
    -- work 2 forests (5s) to complete GV Settlers
    600 (Turn 3)
    -- GV builds settlers - no disorder
    -- Hut - Bronze working
    575 (Turn 4)
    -- Research -> Currency
    -- Disorder in GV - arrgh!!! 3rd martial law unit won't work on 2 citizens!!! Elvis required at size 2 despite temple and garrison
    -- Send Random warrior back home since he's useless
    -- buy 4s in Random
    550 (Turn 5)
    -- Order restored in GV
    525 (turn 6)
    -- Egypt starts GL
    -- Fayette FBF, hire elvis
    -- Currency -> Polytheism (Lit,Map,Mas,Pot,WC) to get closer to mono
    -- Fayette connected to other main cities by road
    500 (Turn 7)
    -- Cheese Valley, Bourgogne FBF Full, elvi hired
    -- Order in Fayette - must continue to work fish to avoid starvation
    475 (turn 8)
    -- order in Cheese, Bourgogne
    -- buy 1s in Cheese, 4s in GV
    450 (Turn 9)
    -- Settlers in Random (Disorder) work fur (1 or 2 more turns to grow than fish, but get 1 more beaker each turn)
    -- GV out of food, work wheat again
    -- Check out 40% luxuries, but not an improvement
    425 (Turn 10)
    -- St. Emilion FBF, hire elvis
    400 (Turn 11)
    -- Order in St Emilion
    -- rush 3s in GV
    375 (Turn 12)
    -- city of Peugeot founded
    -- Fayette can work whale now
    -- buy 2s in Cheese valley
    350 (Turn 13)
    -- buy 1s in fayette
    -- work 2 forests to complete GV Settlers
    325 (Turn 14)
    -- GV builds settlers-city stays calm at size 1
    300 (Turn 15)
    -- English start Marco Polo's Embassy

    Notes and Other Ponderables
    -- The easternmost GV settler was heading to the grassland square due south of its current position to found the next city - not a great spot, but it fills in the land and gets at least some more growth. The Random settler was heading generally south, but I had no location picked out yet. He could go along the western shore, or down toward the line of specials along the south coast. The second GV settler (Near St. Emilion) was to also head down to settle in the south/west.

    -- I couldn't research Trade the last time around for techs, so I went for Polytheism to get closer to mono. I am wondering if Maps might have been better. I was hoping we might sneak in Marco Polo and get maps from someone else, but with the English starting MPE, we could lose out. Even so, I think trade should be the next tech choice. If our main cities can all get their production box close to 40s when trade is done, we might be able to crank out 4 quick camels and sneak in MPE. Polythism should be done in 2-3 turns. With a few more cities built soon, Trade should be done 8-9 turns later

    -- Temples are of very limited value. Even in the capital, I couldn't get a size 2 city content. The only thing it gives us there is that the city can be content at size 1. In general the temples don't seem to be worth the cost at this time.

    -- I probably could have another city built by now if I hadn't built so much road, but I wanted to make it possible to get settlers out toward new colonies faster.

    -- I didn't see a single foreign unit. Also very little information about wonders. All-in-all a very quiet set of turns. I am hoping any foreign contact will result in peace or preferably an alliance. Our big risk is, of course, the Barbarians. Our best unit - an elephant - is wandering around the polar region. The horseman is making his way back to the main cities to at least provide some offensive presence, but we have basically no defenses, and no cash reserves. Sorry had to make some tradoffs

    -- Random Settled will fill its food box in 2 turns- don't forget the elvis. Peugeot is 5 turns away.
     

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  2. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

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    To all:

    I am very sorry, but I have to be skipped until furhter notice. I am embarking on several business trips all in a row, and I won't be able to play any turns during this blitz. I'll be able to keep current with the goings-on, but I won't be able to download nor play.

    Sorry again, but to quote a phrase... "I'll be back."
     
  3. Jayne

    Jayne Emperor

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    That makes me next. I shall drag myself away from the GOTM and play tomorrow. :D
     
  4. Jayne

    Jayne Emperor

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    After a quiet start.....

    250bc (2) Discover Polytheism, start Trade

    225 (3) Found Avignon.
    English abandon MP
    Golden Age in Cumae – Roman

    200 (4) English start MP
    Mongols nearly completed Oracle
    Romans nearly completed GL

    175 (5) Population +200,000
    Chinese start MP
    Karakorum builds Oracle, Rome builds GL
    Egyptians abandon GL

    150 (6) Becanson founded

    75 (9) Meet Egyptian dip on land bridge east of Becanson.
    Icy, 6 spears. Demand Mysticism – we give. Peace treaty signed. Neutral. We offer alliance. They want Polytheism – we give. Alliance! Enthusiastic. We ask for exchange of knowledge, they gift Literacy. Try again – no. Exchange maps? No.

    1ad (12) Mongols and Romans start MP

    20 (13) We discover Trade and start MapMaking. Some production switched to caravans (4 being built) and IPRB'd a little. Start MP in Fayette (currently in disorder and not building)
    Egyptians discover Maths

    40 (14) Chinese nearly completed MP

    60 (15) Rouen founded



    I've left the last settler still to move.

    MP will get built next turn. We currently have 0 shields towards it so we don't losing anything by switching, but it may be worth it to continue 'building' it and hope we can get to Mono quickly.
     
  5. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    Finally - contact! Most excellent.

    You can't exchange maps unless you both have map making. We know egypt has it because we've seen their boats, right? I'd try to get that ASAP from the egyptians so that (a)we don't need to continue researching it ourselves so we can focus our research toward Mono, (b) we can see where they are and (c) we can eventually get off our rock. The other thing that would be useful is Republic. We need the trade to get rid of those elvi. Hopefully we'll be able to get several tech gifts from Egypt without too many Warrior Code type gifts. Either way, we'll need to take most of their techs before they start to gift cash.

    It wouldn't hurt to offer to exchange techs again since we just learned Trade. According to your log, Egypy never started MPE and they abaondoned GL when the Romans completed it, meaning they probably couldn't switch to MPE. If we hurry, there's a good chance they don't have Trade yet and we can do an exchange to (a)see all the techs they have and (b) pick one we want.
     
  6. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    Alright Jayne! :goodjob:

    Andu gets to start round 2. (and I'd better wait to see how many turns he recommends...)
     
  7. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

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    The Regency of Getafix, venerable Druid of the Gaulish Village

    60 ad (end): As recommended, Emissary to Egyptians; Egyptians offer Republic for Trade; we take Map Making. Egyptians also have Construction, Masonry, Mathematics, and Pottery. Budget shifted to 5.1.4 to improve food and shield production, and provide increased tax revenues to incrementally build caravans and triremes. Production shifts towards caravan production. Shanghai builds Marco Polo's Embassy. Mongols, Romans, and English all abandon.

    80 ad (1): St. Emilion builds Silk caravan. We commence research on Philosophy. Emissary to Egyptians results in an exchange in Maps.

    100 ad (2): Gaulish village builds Trireme and, with St. Emilion Silk caravan aboard, sets off towards Egypt. Since Egyptians originally offered Republic for Trade, we send another emissary to Egyptians who now gift us the Republic. Egyptians develop Astonomy.

    120 ad (3): Peugeot builds Silk caravan, which heads for Bescanson (and thence Egypt); Revolution. Egyptians commence Copernicus's Observatory.

    140 ad (4): Republic established. Budget set at 4.3.3; Bourgogne and Cheese Valley in Rebellion in order support settlers.

    160 ad (5): Egyptians abandon Copernicus.

    180 ad (6): Budget to 7.3.0. (since St. Emilion caravan should cover remainder of projected research toward Philosophy). Egyptians start Copernicus.

    200 ad (7): Egyptians develop Banking.

    220 ad (8): Carcasonne founded. Egyptians abandon Copernicus.

    240 ad (9): WLCD in Gaulish Village. Population reaches 300,000. Silk from St. Emilion to Memphis for 209 gold. Egyptians commence Copernicus. Budget to 6.3.1

    260 ad (10): We discover Philsophy, commence research on Monotheism. Peugeot Silk caravan embarks on newly built Trireme in Bescanson, heads for Egypt.

    With the Silk caravan from Peugeot able to arrive in Pi-Ramses in 300 ad, which should yield around another 200g, and by adjusting the science rate up to 30 or 40%, we should reach Monotheism in 320 ad. I haven't requested more gifts from the Egyptians so as to assure the acquisition of Philosophy and then Monotheism as soon as possible; once we get a start on Mike's Chapel, we can again start requesting gifts from the Egyptians without fear of delaying the much-needed Chapel. The money in the bank, plus the boost from our second trade route, should yield adequate money for incrementally rush built caravans to complete Mike's Chapel -- two each in St. Emilion and Peugeot; and one each in Avignon, Gaulish Village, Random Settled, and Fayette. I'd favor St. Emilion for Mike's both for its central position for caravan deliveries and its relatively lesser exposure to seaborne barbarians.

    I think ten turns per person this round should work out fine. btw, Old'n'Slow, play ten and count the extra five from last round against my original ten turns.
     

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  8. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    Sounds good to me.
     
  9. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    The story of Andu's mirror

    Legend has it that an esteemed religious sage of nature fortold an era. He advocated detailed plans for the next few generations and the audience was so awed that they changed not an item in the room of his viewing. When in doubt, the advisors gazed into the mirror and thought that they heard his wisdom. And so his recommendations were carried out.

    And so his forecast came to pass.

    260 AD -- The nation is loading camels (slowly) -- nothing is adjusted.

    280 (1) -- The two cities with unrest stay that way -- Peugeot joins them (growing to size 3) after creating a camel. Add a few shields.

    300 (2) -- Quiet.

    320 (3) -- An elephant circling the North Pole sees a hut and...waits. A demanded camel is accepted in Pi-Ramses for 203 coins and beakers (we forgot to drop the third citizen, so a few coins were never gained.) (Egypt discovers Phil.)

    340 (4) -- Quiet. (a few shields purchased -- advisors nervous.)

    360 (5) -- (Egypt goes to war with England; Zulus start KRC.)

    380 (6) -- Three camels hit the road.

    400 (7) -- Two more camels hit the road. Mono discovered! Medicine opted over Bank, Mas, Pott, WC, & Wheel (we figure all the others might be available.) The Ele in the north shakes out of stasis and...greets a Nomad (who starts the looooong walk home.)

    420 (8) -- A final camel in St. E is made...Mongols start Sun Tsu. Egypt discovers University (a tech per five turns not counting other sources.

    440 (9) -- Eight camels cashed in. Pop = 500 K. Embassy with Egypt -- (they have eight techs that we don't and thirteen cities (as a country armed with six spears, they are also the most advanced compared to our #7!) We talk to our allies, but they have nothing for us but understanding.

    460 (10) -- Mike's in St. E as advised, as predicted. (And many black hats become red hats; hey Carcosonne looks to be be recovered enough to become productive.)

    Notes -- the cities have a few shields towards units (camels) and about 500 coins for investments...

    And we are all surprised that the barbarians ... chose not to visit during these years!
     
  10. Stegyre

    Stegyre Expatriate

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    I guess I'm up next, according to the original schedule?
    If so, I'll try to log my turns this evening. My counselors have until then to submit their budget proposals and recommendations. ;)
     
  11. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

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    The Red and the Black. Ah, for the Hanging Gardens. But I see that a brief boost to 50% luxuries will yield some modest WLCD growth in five of our cities (six once Rouen reaches size 3). But without HG we'll need to use trade routes to lay the foundations for substantive WLCD growth. And once our few cities do increase in size, we do need more settlers ...
     
  12. Stegyre

    Stegyre Expatriate

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    460 (0) – Newly-elected Consul Etienne looks over the reports of the Egyptian Republic: “My, what big cities you have. (And so many of them.)”
    “My, what wondrous technologies you have. (And so many of them.)”
    He consults world travelers about the greatest cities they have seen. “None of them are French,” he muses. His domestic advisor reports on the on-going riots in Bourgogne and Carcasonne. “We French,” he says, “are a very fractious people. Yet, the very angry are often more easily soothed than the merely angry. Here is an ‘obstacle’ that perhaps can be turned into an ‘opportunity.’”
    A few days later, at his inaugural speech:
    “Friends, countrymen, citizens, I am grateful for your support in electing me to this high office. Too long, the French have suffered under burdensome taxes. The coffers of the treasury are swollen, but the people are impoverished. This burden has stifled private innovation and growth, such as are the lifeblood of a nation. In consequence, others view us as ‘pathetic.’ But no more! As my first act in office, I shall lift these taxes. I shall eliminate the estate tax; I shall give families a child-tax credit; I shall eliminate the toilet tax. (Wait a minute, we have not invented those, yet). I shall give large rebates to citizens and huge subsidies to corporations. I shall create huge tax loopholes for the wealthy, large enough so they can sail their triremes through them, and the wealthy shall celebrate with large parties, and they will hire the poor to cater their parties and to clean up after them. Thus, the benefits of these tax cuts will trickle down to the poorest of the poor, like the dribbling from a drunkard’s wine bottle. Citizens, I give you what I am calling ‘supply-side economics’!” (Budget re-set to 2.1.7; a bit of prb to advance units in cities.)
    Contact Egyptians (Supreme – 6 spears): they refuse any exchange because they’re too busy building an observatory. We will try begging for gifts, next time.

    480 (1) – Riotous celebrations break out throughout the Nation – except in Bourgogne, which is just riotous. But everyone knows this is because the Bourgondians resent a Consul from Fayette because of the long-standing rivalry between the two cities. Go hat-in-hand to the Egyptians, who take pity and teach us the science of Construction.

    500 (2) – WLTC growth all over. Egyptians show more pity, teaching us about Universities.

    520 (3) – Egyptians develop Bridge Building and Mongols complete Sun Tzu’s Academy. Rouen completes Silk caravan for delivery to the Egyptians and is now large enough to celebrate. Besancon builds a Settler, because I need more help developing the infrastructure. The automatic re-assignment of workers causes the city to slip into disorder. Egyptians gift us with Pottery.

    540 (4) – Zulus begin Leonardo’s Workshop. Order restored in Besancon. Disorder in Avignon as it adds a new worker. Readjusting him to an ocean tile puts the city in a celebratory mood. Cheese Valley builds a gems caravan for delivery to the Egyptians. St. Emilion builds a Settler. Egyptians gift us Banking.

    560 (5) – Romans begin Observatory – Romans have nearly completed Observatory. Order restored and celebration commences in Avignon. Peugeout builds silver caravan. Unfortunately, we don’t know the location of cities demanding silver. Random Settled builds a Settler and slips out of celebration due to automatic worker reassignment. Some quick adjustment restores the party. Gaulish Village builds gold caravan – no one wants gold, yet, but I hear it is valuable. City temporarily slips out of celebration. Egyptians finally gift Astronomy, but I am no way close to set up to insta-build the Observatory before the Romans.

    580 (6) – Rome builds Observatory. Egyptians abandon Observatory construction. Cheese Valley begins celebration. Fayette builds coal caravan for the Egyptians. Random Settled and Gaulish Village resume celebrations. Egyptians give Masonry.

    600 (7) – Egyptians develop Seafaring. Zulus have nearly completed Workshop. Besancon resumes celebrations. Celebration cancelled in Peugeot. (It has reached size 8, and is now cranking out ten shields per turn.) Egyptians give Seafaring.

    620 (8) – English begin King Richard’s Crusade. Zulus complete Workshop. Zulus change from Workshop to Crusade. Carcasonne builds gems caravan. Rouen builds wine caravan (stops celebrating). Avignon builds silver caravan. Random Settled and Gaulish Village stop celebrating. Silk caravan delivered from Rouen to Thebes (demanded): 468 gp. Blasted Egyptians refuse to give us anything, the ingrates! Change budget to 3.1.6 (most cities are through celebrating).

    640 (9) – St. Emilion builds salt caravan for Egyptians (demanded); Random Settled builds gold caravan for Egyptians (demanded). Silver caravan delivered from Peugeot to Besancon (demanded): 50 gp. Change budget to 1.1.8 to squeeze out just a little more celebration. Egyptians still refuse any more gifts. Probably time to give them a rest.

    660 (10) – English have nearly completed KRC. Avignon builds dye caravan. Peugeot builds salt caravan. Order finally restored in Bourgogne (the only time in my entire administration – probably just glad I’m leaving office). Set budget to 2.2.6, which keeps everyone but Bourgogne content.

    Start-Finish
    Population: 540,000 (7th) - 2,150,000 (6th)
    Income+Science: 55 - 50
    Added Techs: Construction, University, Pottery, Banking, Astronomy, Masonry, Seafaring.

    I was a little surprised that all the population gains actually gave us a net loss in income/science, but this is probably because of the lack of improvements. This would be a good time to build some temples and marketplaces. BTW, with a little tweaking, I found that luxuries can be reduced as low as 40% every city but Bourgogne will be content, but some cities will be hungry. (Bourgogne just won’t be content with any reasonable measures. If we want to do something about it, we will have to either disband or change supports for some of its units, so the workers can shift to trade producing activities.)
     
  13. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    Very sweet -- Should we aim for JSB?
     
  14. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

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    Very nice set of turns, and good write up as well. Markets would yield more benefits than temples, and it'd be nice to try a get some harbors built in some of our cities. Let's hope we can get Navigation next and start work on Magellen's ...
     
  15. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    The Ai tends to downplay Theology and bach, so I would not rush after it. Furthermore I think we are still 3 techs away from Theology (war code, feudalism) and would lose the 10s unit to get there. We are only one tech (Navigation) from Magellan which would greatly help our ability to deliver trade goods and possibly expand off our island some day. That said, we should still prioritize Bach. I just think we can probably get Magellan first if we try.
     
  16. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    I was going to suggest harbors and markets, but Andu beat me to it.
     
  17. Stegyre

    Stegyre Expatriate

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    Yeah, as folks can see, I focussed construction on camels and settlers, rather than improvements. I don't really regret that: you cannot do everything at once, and what was built was certainly very useful. But now, I think it is time to get those improvements in place: marketplaces (I have no objection to that being the top priority; harbors; and I would still do temples, although that might require some consideration. (With so many black faces, it's pretty easy to make every citizen happy, so maybe we can just focus on marketing improvements and skip happiness improvements altogether. As an aside, the black-hat happiness bug is one reason why I think D+2 or +3 games are actually a little easier that D+1. In D+1, prior to democracy and courthouses (or some similar happiness, like HG or CfC), only the capital can easily WLTP. Other cities only celebrate when they have an even number of citizens.)
    We have a good number of demanded caravans making their way south for transportation to Egypt, and they should provide sufficiently good payoffs to fund a round of improvements.
    Another observation: considering the wonders that other civs are building, I fear that we are really lagging in tech. We probably need a boat and some dips to go make more embassies. Perhaps that is best done after Navigation, Caravels, and Magellans.
     
  18. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    Nice set of turns, we are no longer #7 in population (at last).

    Even though the AI is usually in no hurry to build Bach there is one reason it would be nice for us to head straight for it: Unhappiness becomes much easier to handle. That said, Magellan would be extremely nice to have in this kind of geography, it takes a lot of time to reach the southern civs and there is a loooooong time until we can utilize railroads in Egypt to travel south :D.

    We really need some harbors and irrigation. Markets would also be nice in the 'big' cities.
     
  19. Stegyre

    Stegyre Expatriate

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    I would cast my vote for Magellans. We are losing wonders left and right to the AI in this game, and Magellans is one of the more popular wonders for the AI. I fear that if we don't grab it soon, it will be gone.
     
  20. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

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    Well, then ... as you are up next ...;)
     

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