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"Vive l'Empereur!": another D+3 Succession

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by Andu Indorin, Feb 18, 2004.

  1. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Joined:
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    Oops, I didn't realize it was already my turn again :blush:. I'll probably play tomorrow (Sunday).

    What I said in my previous post makes this slightly more complicated because now I'm suddenly forced to try to do for myself some of the things I was talking about :D.
     
  2. golem

    golem Warlord

    Joined:
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    210
    Location:
    Praha, Czech rep.
    Good job and good reading (especially Stegyre). I was a week out and our empire has changed a lot. I am looking forward to my turn after Viking.
     
  3. Stegyre

    Stegyre Expatriate

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Utah, USA
    Our golem lives! Welcome back. :)
     
  4. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    I'm almost finished playing and will post the game in a few hours. Nothing big happened except maybe for the fact that we have a new wonder. Apart from this a few new trade routes, techs and irrigation but very few (but still more than 0) new city improvements.
     
  5. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    I've been extremely busy but I have now finished playing and will post the log tomorrow (Friday).
     
  6. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    Location:
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    660 AD (0): Adjust resource utilization in some cities. Change production in a few cities: Switch to harbor in Fayette. 60% luxuries can be reduced but the overall food deficit would be too large, more irrigation and harbors are needed.

    680 AD (1): Egyptians develop navigation, English complete KRC.

    700 AD (2): Moving caravans around.

    720 AD (3): Medicine discovered. Chemistry next (navigation not an option and the Egyptians do not want to exchange techs).

    740 AD (4): Fayette coal to Pi-Ramesses (demanded; $280). Arrggghh ! Dye no longer demanded there. IRB some stuff.

    760 AD (5): Egyptians develop economics and switch from Magellan to Leo. They do not gift us anything. Avignon dye to Hieraconpolis (demanded; $352). RB harbor in Fayette.

    780 AD (6): Chemistry discovered. Gaulish Village gold to Thebes (demanded; $533). We now have $1041 !!. At last !!!!! The Egyptians agree to exchange techs, we get navigation in exchange for monotheism.

    800 AD (7): Cheese Valley gems to Abydos (demanded; $192 since Abydos was in disorder and had been for some time). Finish Magellan using a combination of cash and caravans not demanded by the Egyptians. Luxuries reduced to 50% with some minor adjustments to prevent riots.

    820 AD (8): Besancon completes Magellan's Expedition. Disband a trireme there and IRB caravel.

    840 AD (9): Physics discovered. The Egyptians gift us iron working.

    860 AD (10): The Egyptians gift us economics.


    Notes: I have been sending all caravans to Besancon and from there to Egypt, they have almost always demanded something. This is also the reason Magellan was built there; I had a bunch of caravans there when I finally acquired navigation from the Egyptians. I have been alternating between three tech goals, depending on what could be researched: Democracy, Theology and Magnetism (necessary to get galleons which do not cause unhappiness which would otherwise be a big problem in democracy unless we build Bach first).

    50% luxuries are an evil necessity that will not go away until we have more markets and/or Bach.

    Bourgogne has been in constant disorder but a road on a nearby plain might be sufficient to fix this (we really have too few settlers). A marketplace might also fix the problem.

    I didn't build many harbors because we are not ready for growth. Also I wanted to keep some cash reserves in case the barbarians show up. Avignon is building a diplomat in case something nasty happens somewhere.

    Once we get harbors and some irrigation some of our cities can support two settlers making it easier to expand (we really should found some cities in the north, also there are islands (?) W and S of Random Settled and there seems to be one N of Fayette as well).

    Besancon (which has Magellan) is totally undefended but is building a crusader. I strongly recommend IRBing it (or possibly something cheaper like a dip) immediately, we have the cash to do so and will get a lot of cash from caravan deliveries next turn.

    It should be obvious where the caravans in Egypt are headed except for the one next to Memphis which is headed for Elephantine.

    We don't have ship chain yet but should be able to set up one in the near future.
     

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  7. golem

    golem Warlord

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    Fine job after Viking. We have the fastest ships, the most beautiful woman, the smartest diplomats and a lot of money. The world is unexplored, so I can look around – this is the best work for me. Thanks Viking.

    1- 880 - First expedition is heading west.
    -Gems. Giya, 228g
    - Silver, Hieraconpolis..205g
    -Dye Pi-Ramasses 228g

    2- 900 - Second expedition is heading east
    - Salt, Elephanitine.228g
    - Gems , Giya 97g
    - Mathematics

    3- 920 -First Expedition riched Norwith – people loves us and wants us – spend 276g for celebration., receive Bridge Building, English nows, Warrior code, Wheels, Eng.
    -meet English, peace, gave Phi, Wri, Lit – Share maps. – that bastards do not want to share techs.
    - Bead, Heliopolis, 164g

    4- 940 - Egyptian – exchange techs – Magnetism
    - we requested gift - 250q
    -- Second expedition- hut – Advanced city - Dijon

    5- 960 –Elephant on the north pole hut – 25g

    6- 980 - Third expedition is heading south

    7- 1000 Lost settler on the north - founded Amiens

    8- 1020 - Gems, Heliopolis, 210g
    -Second expedition riched Chine citz of Tientsin. – We have paid some refreshments (770g) for people – they were so lucky. They joined our Empire, gave us Invention. They knows Engineering, Warrior, Wheel.
    - signed peace with Chinese, we gave them Phi, Phy, Med, Share maps. They do not want to exchange knowledge.- as usually.

    9- 1040 Third expedition rich Shanghai
    -Wine, Shanghai, 104g

    10- 1060 -Salt, Heliopolis, 104g
    -Silc, Macao, 156\g

    For my successor – Good luck !!
     
  8. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    Played my turns, but need to work on log and such. Should have it up tomorrow. Must...get....sleep.... :sleep:
     
  9. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Joined:
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    1,985
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    "Once upon a time there was an old country, wrapped up in habit and caution. We have to transform our old France into a new country and marry it to its time."
    - Charles De Gaulle

    AD 1060
    Tax rate 1/4/5, Treasury 712g, Pop 2,760,000.

    F1 - 15 cities. Building 10 caravans, 1 market, 1 aqua, 3 dips.
    - - Size 8: 3
    - - Size 5-7: 6
    - - Size 1-4: 6

    F2 - Defense Status
    - - Settlers 5 - All on home continent, working. Bourgogne settler strangling home
    - - Warriors 3 - Worthless Shield support
    - - Defenders 5 - Three in tientsen(too many) 1 in Norwich, 1 in besancon. All relatively worthless given current technology.
    - - Horse 1 - Random settled
    - - Ele 1 - Finished trans-polar crossing. Home=Bourgogne
    - - Trireme 2 - One in Besancon, one 5sq. South
    - - Caravel 3 - One S of Shanghai (several turns from nearest city) 1 a few squares from Tientsen, 1 in Norwich.
    - - Dip 3 - One in ship S. of shanghai, one in Norwich. One exploring NE of Norwich
    - - Caravans Zero?!!?! - Need these desperately

    Ships are obsolete and can cause unhappiness. Major effort must be made to recall them and upgrade to galleons in prep for democracy

    F3 - Weak, Spotless. (Good lord, who's worse off than us? Probably our Key civ :rolleyes: )
    - - Egypt: Enthus, Allied, 272g. Republic. 33 techs, none we need. Researching None. 14 cities, 2 building ASTCo. War with english.
    - - English: Cordial peace, No embassy. 10 cities visible, All on large island.
    - - Chinese: Enthus. Peace. No embassy. 14 cities visible on massive central continent.
    - - Zulus: Own Virconium ( formerly roman?) Far south of Chinese on same continent. No contact.

    F4 - No disorder
    - - Peugeot, GV celebrating (all happy), but stopped at size 8.
    - - Most cities have 1-3 reds.

    (Bach would be very nice)

    Cutting luxury to 40% ends celebrations in Size8 cities (so we probably won't do it), but only causes disorder in one city (Random Settled) which can be fixed with an elvis. Several cities get more black hats. 30% luxuries throws numerous cities into disorder.

    F5 - 4 temples, 3 markets, 3 harbors (10g support)
    - - Income 27 gold (17 net), 79 beakers (16 turns - 1258 needed)

    Some experiments
    - - 50% gold 115g (105 net)
    - - 60% gold 136g (126 net)
    - - 50% science 99b (13 turns)
    - - 60% science 124b (11 turns)

    F6 - Researching Democracy. 20% done.
    - - 34 techs total.

    F7 - All ancient wonders built. 6/7 Renaissance wonders built(all but shakes). One Industrial Wonder built (Leo's)

    F8 - Top cities all size 12 : Rome (2 Wonders), Thebes (1 Wonder), Shanghai (1W), Beijing (1W), Zimbabwe (1W)

    1060 (Turn 0)
    - - Disband trireme and phalanx in Besancon. Change to Galleon. Hire elvis for celebrate
    - - Caravel disbanded in Norwich. Galleon rushed for 22g in Norwich
    - - Peugeot rushed to 60s for 40g - complete aqua in 2 turns
    - - Move norwich phalanx out to reclaim grassland fort square, try with archer in Tientsen, but englishsettler is there.
    - - Hire another elvis in tientsen for celebration
    - - IRB 2s in Dijon for 4g
    - - GV switch to harbor as not enough food to grow yet - disband warrior
    - - St Emilion - disband warrior, IRB to 40s for 11g. Work shields to complete camel (temp hunger)
    - - Fayette - rush 1s to 10 for 2g
    - - Avignon - rush 4s to 20 for 8g. Disband warrior, rush 5s to 30 for 11g
    - - carcasonne - FBF - move worker in prep for size 3.
    - - cheese - more shields
    - - Tax 50/0/50

    1080 (turn 1)
    - - Egypt nearly completes ASTCo
    - - Rouen builds salt camel
    - - WLTCD in Besancon, Tientsen
    - - Saint Emilion - coal caravan
    - - Hut none crusader
    - - Talk to china - 3 spears - War with English? No. (I guess an alliance is out of the question). Demand Monotheism. No. ask them to w/draw troops. Done. Still enthus.
    - - Disband archer and caravel at Tientsen toward galleon
    - - Disband trireme toward galleon in Besancon.
    - - 8s to 20 in fayette 19g
    - - 7s to 20 in Random 16g
    - - 6s to 40 in carcasonne 13g
    - - rb harbor in GV for 98g

    1100 (2)
    - - Thebes build Adam Smith's Trading Co. (Chinese abandon, Egypt > Shakes.)
    - - Egypt at war with chinese
    - - Chinese start Shakes
    - - Chinese kill english settler near tientsen
    - - English order us to leave vicinity of coventry
    - - Peugeot Aquaduct size 9
    - - GV Harbor.
    - - Pop > 3,000,000
    - - Besancon, Tientsen grow to size 7
    - - Hut nomads
    - - Hut spotted, barb archer spotted. Ummmm…kill archer (Vet status)
    - - road makes Rouen ready to celebrate again. Buy to 60s toward aqua for 100g
    - - Bourgogne - change to camel, rush to 10s for 19g
    - - Rehome elephant to amiens so bourgogne will have some production again
    - - Now that Norwich has taken the irrigated, roaded GL sheild square from coventry, our plalanx moves back to Norwich.
    - - Besancon - RB galleon
    - - Carcasonne - rush camel 16g
    - - St. Emilion - rush to 10 - 6g
    - - Random - Rush to 30 - 16g
    - - Dijon FBF - rush to 20s - 13g

    1120 (3)
    - - Barb elephant spotted
    - - Carcasonne Salt caravan
    - - WLTPD in Rouen
    - - Avignon Gems caravan
    - - Cheese Valley Beads caravan
    - - Hut crusaders None - next to two barbs (elephant, archer)
    - - Vet crusader kills barb archer
    - - Crusader kills elephant (vet)
    - - Tientsen size 8 nomad arrives to improve city
    - - Ack. Forgot to beg!
    - - Egypt - war with english? No. Demand 303g….ummm..no? gift? 100g. :)
    - - Besancon size 8 celebration done.
    - - Rush St. Emilion to 30s
    - - Rush Fayette to 30s
    - - rush random to 40s
    - - Rush aqua in GV for 146g
    - - Rush dip in Dijon
    - - Disband phalanx in Tientsen
    - - rush to 10s in Norwich

    1140 (4)
    - - Egypt develops War Code
    - - Chinese change to Statue of Liberty (want to get democracy)
    - - Dijon Diplomat
    - - Rouen Aquaduct size 9 - probably one more growth
    - - WLTPD Cancelled in Besancon
    - - Gaulish Village Aquaduct - size 9
    - - Egypt city of Asyut located
    - - Bribe barb elephant for 82g
    - - Vet crusader kills barb elephant
    - - Hut located
    - - English explorer spotted E of Norwich
    - - English - war with egypt? No. Demand montheism? No. Exchange tech? no.
    - - Egypt - wants to exchange war code for invention. Nah. War with england? No. demand 100g? No. gift? War code.
    - - China - War with egypt? No. Demand Montheism? No.Exchange? No.
    - - Rush to 10s in Besancon
    - - Rush to 10s in Avignon
    - - Rush caravan in Random
    - - rush to 20s in Norwich

    1160 (5)
    - - English start Statue
    - - WLTCD cancelled in Tientsen
    - - Random Gold caravan
    - - Hut advanced tribe. Cherbourg founded. Size 4 with Temple, Market, Library!
    - - Egypt - war english? No. 100g? No.Gift? 100g.
    - - rush to 20s in Besancon
    - - rush to 40s in Fayette
    - - peugeot topped out at size 12.
    - - rush to 20s in Tientsen

    1180 (6)
    - - Rush to 50s at norwich
    - - WLTCD in Cherbourg
    - - Disorder in Amiens - leave in disorder 1 turn, then elvis to fill box.
    - - Norwich wine caravan
    - - Saint emilion Dye caravan
    - - Population exceeds 4 million
    - - %@$^@!!!!!! Right before delivery, gems no longer demanded in Thebes. :aargh: Only foreign demand is Canton and Karakorum (wherever that is). Jump back onto ship toward china and hope.
    - - Rouen Salt to Coventry (d-240g)
    - - Embassy with english - 1488g, Republic, have Demo, Eng, Gunpowder, The Wheel that we do not. Researching Steam engine. They only have 32 total techs, so we should be able to trade something. Hmm…
    - - English - war with egypt? Never. Want monotheism? No. Exchange? No.
    - - Chinese - War egypt? No. Monotheism? No. exchange? No.
    - - Rush to 10s in Dijon
    - - Rush harbor in Cherbourg
    - - What the...??? Gaulish village has all three supply commodities blocked. Two were available last turn but supply changed back to the goods of existing routes and reblocked themselves?!
    - - GV production changed to ship.
    - - Rush to 30s in Tientsen, change to camel
    - - Rush caravan in Fayette
    - - rush to 10s in Random
    - - Rush to 20s in Bourgogne
    - - rush to 30s in Besancon
    - - rush harbor in carcasonne
    - - egypt war?no. 100g? No. gift? 75g

    1200 (7)
    - - Chinese ship wandering around between china and england
    - - Cherbourg harbor
    - - Amiens disorder
    - - carcasonne harbor
    - - WLTCD in Carcasonne
    - - Peugeot Cloth
    - - Fayette silk
    - - China - war with egypt? No. Monotheism? No. Update maps? Yes.
    - - rush to 20s in Random
    - - rush to 40s in Besancon
    - - rush to 10 in St. Emilion
    - - rush to 20 in Dijon
    - - rush to 10s in norwich
    - - egypt - War with england, no. 200g? No. gift? 75g

    1220 (8)
    - - Egypt nearly completes shakespeare's theatre
    - - Egypt develops wheel
    - - English get magenetism from chinese
    - - barb elephant kills crusader on mountain :(
    - - Disorder in amiens - damn. Forgot to hire elvis. FBF
    - - WLTCD in Fayette
    - - St. Emilion coal to Macao (d-345)
    - - Last Caravel disbanded in Random settled rush to 50s
    - - Bribe barb elephant for 82g
    - - Elephant finally tracks down and kills Barb archer (Vet)
    - - Rush to 30s in Dijon
    - - Rush to 10s in Cherbourg
    - - Rush to 40s in Tientsen
    - - Rush to 30s in St. Emilion
    - - rush to 20s in Cherbourg
    - - Egypt wants to exchange wheel for invention. No. war with england? No. 200g? No! share maps since we don’t want Wheel now.
    - - china - montheism? No. Exchange? No.
    - - English and chinese now allied, but Egypt still at war with both
    - - English - Turn on egypt? No. Monotheism? No. exchange, still no.

    1240 (9)
    - - Giza builds shakespeare's theatre.
    - - Chinese nearly complete Statue of Liberty
    - - Order restored in amiens at size 2, elvis can be fired.
    - - WLTCD cancelled in carcasonne
    - - Besancon Spice caravan
    - - Random Settled Wine van
    - - Elephant comes home, sets up shop in St. Emilion
    - - Crusader sets up shop in Besancon
    - - Kill barb archer
    - - City of Poitiers founded
    - - Use archer to claim fort GL shield square for Tientsen
    - - rush van in tientsen
    - - rush to 10 in fayette
    - - rush to 30 in bourgogne
    - - rush settlers in Dijon
    - - rush to 30 in norwich
    - - Change to 1/4/5 to improve science again. Make sure demo within range next turn with 1 caravan

    1260 (10)
    - - Canton builds Statue of Liberty (English Abandon)
    - - Warning to leave vicinity of hanchow.
    - - English develop steam engine
    - - English start Eiffel Tower
    - - English camel approaches Norwich - talks - cancel alliance with egypt? NO. give Monotheism, NO. Exchange? No.
    - - WLTCD cancelled in Cherbourg
    - - Dijon settlers - goes into disorder
    - - Carcasonne builds market
    - - WLTCD in Carcasonne
    - - Peugeot diplomat
    - - Tientsen Wine caravan
    - - Wine caravan sets ashore at Pi Rameses - egypt talks - exchange wheel for invention? No. english, blah blah? 200g? No. Share maps since we're talking.
    - - Start working fort/GL sqauare at Tientsen. Withdraw archer now.
    - - Rush Caravan at Norwich to hop on nearby ship next turn.
    - - China - egypt? No. Monotheism? No. Exchange maps

    Comparison 1060 - 1260
    Pop: 2,760,000 - 4,700,000
    Treasury: 718g - 998g

    F1 Cities 15 - 17
    - - Size 12: 0 - 2
    - - Size 9-11: 0 -1
    - - Size 8: 3 - 2
    - - Size 5-7: 6 - 6
    - - Size 1-4: 6 - 6

    F2 Settlers 5 - 6 (one None)
    - - Warriors 3 - 0
    - - Defenders 5 - 2
    - - Horse 1 - 1
    - - Ele 1 - 3 (two None)
    - - Crusaders 0 - 2 (one None)
    - - Trireme 2 - 0 (Unhappiness)
    - - Caravel 3 - 0 (Unhappiness)
    - - Galleon 0 - 6
    - - Dip 3 - 4
    - - Caravans 0 - 11

    F5 at 10/40/50
    - - Gold 27(17 net) - 44 (21 net)
    - - Science 79 (16 turns) - 112 (11 turns)
     
  10. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Joined:
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    Notes

    I think we could be at a critical juncture. If we can get Demcoracy and build Bach we should be well positioned for the future. I just wish I had a few more turns to finish up what I started. Since I don't, here are my thoughts on what I was trying to do so that hopefully the momentum will carry over. Sorry it's so long-winded.

    There are several caravans that can be delivered on the next turn. DO NOT DELIVER THEM ALL AT ONCE!!!!! We are about 80% done researching Democracy so we only need about 265 beakers to complete it. ONLY DELIVER ONE OF THE CARAVANS - Either the Norwich Wine to Pi-Rameses or the Random Settled Gold to Coventry should be more than enough to fill out Democracy. I would probably deliver the one to Coventry since we are much less friendly with England. (If you don't hit the full 265, don't worry, we're also producing about 110 beakers/turn at the current rate, so you will really only need about 160 beakers from the delivery bonus if you keep 40% science.) Then on the following turn, you can put the other caravans toward the next tech. Don't forget to max out trade in the source city before delivering caravans - some cities are working sheild squares or have elvi so trade is reduced. After Democracy is complete, we should select Feudalism to get to Theology so we can build Bach's Cathedral. I believe Feudalism will be offered but if someone wants to doublecheck, that would be helpful. If it isn't, select The Wheel because we can then immediately get The wheel from Egypt and then pick feudalism. Note - DO NOT take The Wheel from egypt unless you are SURE we will still be allowed to pick Feudalism this time and Theology next. This means DO NOT ASK EGYPT FOR A GIFT because they will likely give us the Wheel! We have enough caravans close to delivery out that we should be able finish Feudalism fairly quickly, possibly in one turn. Then do the same thing with Theology (Pick it, but if it's not available, choose The Wheel then get it from egypt). I don't have caravans stored up for Bach yet - they've all been trying to head out to demanding cities for the necessary beakers. The cash from these deliveries could pay for Bach or better yet, use the cash to RB a few camels to help build it once we have Theo. I have made a point not to give Monotheism out to China or England so that they couldn't get to Theo, but who knows what has been researched farther south.

    Camels Unfiltered ;) We have 11 caravans - Where they are and what had I planned to do with them. (Of course this could all change if demand changes. Always keep checking)
    - - Random Settled Gold - sitting next to Coventry. Probably deliver this one next turn. (or after democracy completed)
    - - Norwich Wine - sitting next to Pi-Ramesses. Wait and deliver after Democracy completed. Could deliver next turn instead of above.
    - - Saint Emilion Dye and Fayette Silk - In boat North of Canton. Deliver to Tsingtao after democracy completed. Re-check demand after delivering first caravan to ensure the other is still demanded. If not, there are many nearby Chinese cities demanding Dye, Silk or both.
    - - Peugeot Cloth - in boat SE of Rouen - Heading toward Shanghai (The only foreign city currently demanding cloth).
    - - Cheese Valley Beads - In boat SE of Rouen (with Cloth). There is currently no foreign Beads demand. If demand does not materialize by the time you get to Shanghai with the cloth, I was probably just going to dump the beads in a moderately distant, good trade city like Beijing.
    - - Avignon Gems - Right next to Nanking - Gems demand evaporated, so this van was working its way to Beijing to be dumped. It could go into Nanking, but there's no need since the delivery to coventry should be plenty to finish Demo next turn. Beijing apears to have more trade and is farther away for a bigger bonus.
    - - Carcasonne Salt - In Besancon, waiting ship currently at Pi-Ramesses. - Demanded in York, Nottingham. Start heading that way and pass off to the boats currently between china and england to speed transit.
    - - Besancon Spice - In Besancon, waiting for ship, probably the one near Poitiers. Demanded in Hangchow, Anyang and several "Southern Capitals". I would probably send it to Chinese cities by heading East from Poitiers.(Has full movement allowance still - could head to Poitiers to get on ship there.)
    - - Tientsen Wine. In boat north of Tientsen. Demanded in Hastings and Oxford. Heading up to England - might be worth dropping it off on road north of Hastings and going for bigger bonus in more distant Oxford, although we'll get quicker results at hastings
    - - Random Settled Wine - Next to Saint Emilion. This one was going down to Besancon to hop on a later boat, but it might be worth keeping closer to home to build Bach.
    - - Note, Norwich is about to complete a caravan. [Don't forget to load it on the boat that just dropped the camel off at coventry.
    - - Saint Emilion is about to complete a caravan as well. It currently has copper available which is in high demand lots and lots of places.

    I spent almost the entire time with science at 0 and taxes maxed to get our navy rebuilt, celebrate a few more cities, and get those caravans rolling out again. The science rate was so pathetic I figured we'd get most of our research from caravans and neighbors anyway. Not having any caravans to start, I probably should have spent more aggresively early on to get the caravans rolling sooner, but I kept about 500g in the coffers each turn for emergencies. We should be rolling in cash when the caravans are delivered over the next few turns. Most of that should go towards building Bach (or caravans for it), but other than that, I did not have specific plans for spending it. We're running out of supplied goods in a lot of cities. We really need to build settlers and fill in some more land (This should also give us more supplied goods). We have a few cities that could handle supporting a settler at least long enough to get to a city site. We may need more boats to shuttle settlers around to nearby islands. It would also help to send boats to expose offshore specials currently in the black at Fayette and Carcasonne.

    Golem had the right idea by exploring and meeting other nations (although I wonder if bribing their cities is helping our attempts to get technology from them!) We should get some teams out exploring farther south. I felt it was necessary to recall the navy and upgrade it to prepare for Democracy, and we needed a fair number of boats to deliver our trade goods, but a couple ships should be sent down south with diplomats to meet and set up embassies with the southern empires.

    Defenses are still pretty weak right now, but better than before. Our elephant is finally back home. He is stationed in Saint Emilion to protect Mikes. A new crusader is in Besancon to protect Magellan. A new dip was just built in Peugeot, and we still have a horse (which is pretty worthless now) in Random Settled. We could use more dips around the homeland to protect against barbs. China and England both have Gunpowder, so we are lagging behind in military technology. Definitely avoid wars for now. Ancient defensive units (e.g., phalanxes) are not worth much right now but I kept one each in the cities that were bribed just because they are so close to the other civs. We have a few None units and a dip exploring the land SW of egypt. These could be recalled to help defend the homeland but I don't know that that is necessary. One of the elephants is already heading back north to catch the ship delivering the caravan to Shanghai. Or they could continue exploring that continent to try to get some huts ahead of the egyptians. If you do keep exploring there, beware: I've been running into the remains of a barb uprising as I go (the elephants are bribed barbs). I have no idea where they started or how many there are, but they are definitely out there.

    Settler Stories
    - - The settler North of Carcasonne is supposed to build a city there next turn. It's not the greatest site, but at least its got a whale, and helps fill in the land to the north. More importantly, it should finally free Bourgogne up to start growing again.
    - - The Settlers near Saint Emilion are both precharged one turn and can complete roads next turn. I think the same is true of the one at Rouen, but I'm not sure. Either way, a road would help there.
    - - The settler working around Tientsen is a None Nomad.
    - - In addition to expanding to new islands, we still need several new cities for Barb supression close to home. The land North of Saint Emilion should definitely get at least one city soon - perhaps the GL square 2 moves NW of the Buffalo?. The area between Rouen, Besancon, Saint Emilion and Peugeot probably needs 2 cities. They will overlap, but it's probably safer that way. Perhaps the GL square at (76,40) - it overlaps quite a bit with Avignon, but at least it picks up the forests SE of St. Emilion. Then I'd probably put a city on one of the Canal locations NE of Rouen (72,44 Grass or 73,43 Plains). We also need more coverage north and west of carcasonne and there are a couple sites that aren't too bad (e.g., 79,21 and 76,14)

    Foreign Relations
    - - Our reputation is still spotless despite bribing the English and Chinese cities because it was done before contact was made.
    - - England and China are at war with Egypt. Whenever I talked to them, they would ask me to turn against Egypt and they would ask for Monotheism. I always turned down these requests and no harm came. However, neither will exchange techs with us. We have techs that they do not, so I wonder if it might be because we bribed their cities?
    - - Egypt keeps demanding war with england. Then they demand money. I always turned down both requests and could still ask for gifts and they stayed enthusiastic allies. There does not appear to be any reason to give in to these demands.
    - - We could use an embassy with china, just to see what they're up to.
    - - Maps with egypt and china were updated this turn. I have not attempted to exchange with England because they are not happy enough.
    - - We see one Zulu city that has a Roman name, so we should have a rough idea where these two civs are. The mongols are out there somewhere as well.

    As mentioned above, we should complete Democracy in two turns. The next Oedo year is 1340 so if you are inclined to switch, the revolution should be in 1320. The main benefit of switching would be the lack of corruption which will significantly help the more distant cities' happiness. The main drawback would be sending out units, which we probably won't be doing anytime soon. The exploring units are all Nones.

    Note that I did not finish all the rush buy's or checking the production queues this turn. There may be some cities that just finished building something that might need their production changed.

    Good Luck!
     

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  11. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    You might not be able to trade tech with England and China because you didn't declare war on Egypt, it's just a theory...
     
  12. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    Could be. But since Egypt is our one ally: the source of much gold and technology (and could probably destroy us if they tried), I'm not declaring war on them any time soon. Doing so would sully our reputation and we wouldn't get anything from anybody.

    I have had civs ask for war and still exchange techs, but who really knows how this diplomacy engine works?
     
  13. golem

    golem Warlord

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    I was used to play MGE and the diplomacy was totaly different. The AIs here are enthusiastic or cordial for long time, but they do not want exchange techs.
    In MGE there were hostile quickly, but after some my gift they would exchange techs in about 60 - 70 percent propability. What is curious - bribing or conquer city has usually improve my negotiation - I would say they have started to have a respect.
    When I bribed English (or Chinese city) and made peace, I was sure I will exchange techs - but no chance.
     
  14. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    I don't know why they won't exchange. Often when you're small like us(and not playing MGE), they take some pity and at least exchange every once in a while. It may not be because of the bribes, it could just be because we're "Weak" instead of "Pathetic." It could be the alliance with their enemy, Egypt. It might be that we need to give them a few more gifts first(although the "enthusiastic" chinese couldn't be too much happier), but they both wanted monotheism which I wouldn't give up because it leads to Theology. Like I said, who knows?
     
  15. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    After thinking about the Caravans and science, there is another possible approach. Since we're producing 110+ beakers at 40%, that means 220/265 in two turns. If you increase the rate to 0 tax, 50% science, 50% luxury, that brings us up to 136 beakers/turn which should give us enough to complete Democracy without delivering any of the caravans. Since we would be cutting it pretty close, I would hire a couple einsteins in a big city or two, just to be safe. We run a small deficit for a couple turns, but we have plenty of gold to afford it. That way, all the caravans would be available to deliver after Democracy is learned.

    Just a thought.

    (edit to fix stupid math error)
     
  16. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    Great turnset, great write up. :goodjob:

    Looks like the plan is -- Democracy, JSB, Expand with new cities.

    I like it. :cool:
     
  17. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    Switching to democracy ASAP looks like a good idea. Following this we need Bach ASAP so that some of our military units can stay outside cities, otherwise the government may collapse if barbs show up.

    I have forgotten if we are allowed to bribe cities or not.

    There seems to be an island immediately north of Fayette that we should explore. We need more cities.

    It could be fun to goad the English into declaring war and then steal some techs from them.
     
  18. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    Corruption is really strangling several cities, so I wouldn't be surprised if we could cut the luxury rate by 10 or maybe even 20% once we get to Demo.

    None of the other D+ games allowed city bribes, but nothing was said about it at the start of this one so I'm not sure. Golem did, but I was planning on avoiding it (not that the opportunity presented itself). I'm not sure if Andu just assumed they were out when we started...I did, but we've got some new players this time.

    I would get Demo, Bach and Gunpowder before getting into any sort of war with england. They have gunpowder, we do not. Those are not the type of odds I like to go up against. Norwich could be taken easily, even by the inept AI, and it is the home city for one of our ships. If war seems imminent, we should rehome the Norwich and Tientsen ships to a more secure city so we don't let the loss of a city send valuable trade goods to the bottom of the ocean
     
  19. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

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    Hello all:

    I am back from my trips including several lovely cities in the US. Looks like this game is going strong, and I apologize for having to miss so much.

    Given that I've not played any turns on this and that you are all so far along, I will be happy to sit on the sidelines and observe for the duration. If possible, I would love to see a screen shot or two. I probably won't get a chance to download for a while.

    Enjoy!
     
  20. Stegyre

    Stegyre Expatriate

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    Utah, USA
    Shucks! I don't have any problem with Kev stepping right back in, and I doubt anyone else does. If I remember the order correctly, it's even Kev's turn. I'd say go for it, and welcome back.
     

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