Vox Populi very very hard after update?

[glider1]

Hey guys please take what I have to say seriously. We are missing the point.

The point is not that the game is harder, it is that human psychology is what it is.

We have to change the names of the difficulty levels and that will solve the entry barrier to new and former players.

Think about it. The difficulty players have is not with the game but with their egos.

It means a big deal to no longer play as "an emperor" or a "deity".

So just shift the names of the difficulty levels in VP and no egos are going to be upset and the numbers of player playing VP will skyrocket way beyond Civ6.

So all the vanilla "deity" players still play VP "deity" it is just that "deity" is actually emperor level.

So all the vanilla "immortal" players still play VP "immortal" it is just that it is king.

Then all the egos will be happy no arguments. Matter of fact people will then say the game is too easy and all the developer has to say is "move up a level".

Then they will say the AI cheats like they always did.

That simple.

 

[Stalker0]

Hey guys please take what I have to say seriously. We are missing the point.

The point is not that the game is harder, it is that human psychology is what it is.

We have to change the names of the difficulty levels and that will solve the entry barrier to new and former players.

Think about it. The difficulty players have is not with the game but with their egos.

It means a big deal to no longer play as "an emperor" or a "deity".

So just shift the names of the difficulty levels in VP and no egos are going to be upset and the numbers of player playing VP will skyrocket way beyond Civ6.

So all the vanilla "deity" players still play VP "deity" it is just that "deity" is actually emperor level.

So all the vanilla "immortal" players still play VP "immortal" it is just that it is king.

Then all the egos will be happy no arguments. Matter of fact people will then say the game is too easy and all the developer has to say is "move up a level".

Then they will say the AI cheats like they always did.

That simple.

So what would we call the two levels above this new "diety" level (aka VP king)?

 

[ashendashin]

So what would we call the two levels above this new "diety" level (aka VP king)?

Elitist? Masochist? Gotta be something to level the ego field.

 

[tu_79]

Elitist? Masochist? Gotta be something to level the ego field.

Sid was a difficulty level once.

 

[pineappledan]

• Warlord
• Prince
• King
• Emperor
• Demigod
• Immortal
• Deity
• Eldritch Abomination

 

[ashendashin]

Sid was a difficulty level once.

It'd be interesting if he ever plays VP. Unfortunately we don't have someone like that who also plays the game. But then, overcoming the gazebo might make for a challenge of its own.

Edit:
Ah, see? Dan knows what's up. Eldritch Abomination is close enough.

 

[glider1]

It is also a bit of an issue that we have been unintentionally rude to the civ community naming the top VP difficulty deity (we didn't mean it).
The point is that the base game is Sid Meier Civilization the game that is the reference whether we like it or not.
VP is not civ. It is just a humble mod no matter how good it is.
So the Sid Meier game difficulty levels are "real" and vanilla "deity" is the truth.
VP players know that vanilla deity is actually just an empty shell of a difficulty level compared to VP.
But we let people find that out for themselves without the implied "rudeness" of calling VP top level deity.

What I am saying is counter-intuitive.

You would think that if we called VP deity two levels down from top difficulty, that is actually rude.

But it is not. It is the truth.

 

[CrazyG]

I think what makes Vox Populi difficult for newer players is how balanced it is. Games that have obviously bad options have an easier learning curve. It creates learning opportunities, in Vanilla once a player finds the trend of science=win game they can improve their situation.

The extreme balance of VP makes things harder. There is no magic building to rush and get ahead of the AI. You also fall behind mid or late game, rather than start behind. If you play on Deity and you just start the game behind in everything, then lose when you don't catch up, it makes a lot of sense. Its irritating to be ahead, then have a sudden happiness fallout and have the AI overtake you. Its also harder to see the cause. We can't really offer basic advice because the best choice is dependent on context. The only piece of advice that seems to be universal is build workers earlier.

 

[tu_79]

I think what makes Vox Populi difficult for newer players is how balanced it is. Games that have obviously bad options have an easier learning curve. It creates learning opportunities, in Vanilla once a player finds the trend of science=win game they can improve their situation.

The extreme balance of VP makes things harder. There is no magic building to rush and get ahead of the AI. You also fall behind mid or late game, rather than start behind. If you play on Deity and you just start the game behind in everything, then lose when you don't catch up, it makes a lot of sense. Its irritating to be ahead, then have a sudden happiness fallout and have the AI overtake you. Its also harder to see the cause. We can't really offer basic advice because the best choice is dependent on context. The only piece of advice that seems to be universal is build workers earlier.

It's only counter-intuitive for those used to vanilla Civ. That's why there should be two great warnings before installing the game. Maybe even the game installer should say them:
1. Warning. Vox Populi is three levels harder than Civ V BNW.
2. Warning. AI is stronger in the late game.

 

[civplayer33]

Right or how about we open an interaction dialogue with a text field for the highest level where the player has to type in "I'm a masochistic little b!tch" before being allowed to start the game?

Joking aside, I actually like the idea! I think Demigod should come between Immortal (which is still human, just immortal) and Deity. Also I always found Prince to be a bit lame as a designation...I mean unless you are the elder son or your elder brothers perish conveniently, you might not even get to rule! Those kinds of princes are nothing but pampered, entitled mama's boys who get their noses powdered by indentured servants each morning.
Also, lets stick with this and replace 'Warlord' with 'Count'

So I'd like to see something like

Count
Duke
King
Emperor
Immortal
Demigod
Deity
THE FATHER (or Sid or whatever)

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

just add back Noble ( between warlord and prince ) and Monarch ( between king and emperor ) and voilà there you go

 

[Paramecium]

Are you just suggesting a relabeling of the Difficulties? Or additional grades? First I dont really see necessary, just for the feeling? The second would be some work needed...

 

[CppMaster]

Are you just suggesting a relabeling of the Difficulties? Or additional grades? First I dont really see necessary, just for the feeling? The second would be some work needed...

It would be mostly for new Vox Populi players to not get confused about higher difficulty. It's maybe not necessary for you, but also it wouldn't harm you, would it?

 

[tu_79]

It would be mostly for new Vox Populi players to not get confused about higher difficulty. It's maybe not necessary for you, but also it wouldn't harm you, would it?

But it may sound a bit silly to have a game with these difficulties:
1 - Hard
2 - Very very hard
3 - Crazy hard

I'm more in favor of placing those warnings somewhere visible.

 

[CppMaster]

But it may sound a bit silly to have a game with these difficulties:
1 - Hard
2 - Very very hard
3 - Crazy hard

I'm more in favor of placing those warnings somewhere visible.

That's why we have titles like King, Emperor, Deity

 

[Owlbebach]

Well, I've tried it 3 times now. Total vanilla VP. Dosen't change much. Still too hard to play. Latest: Warlord, large map, large islands. Things are going fairly okay until suddenly everyone decide to wage war on me. Everyone!!! Somehow one civ can change city states over with a snap on your fingers, For me it takes 3 to 4 diplomats. That means I fight most of city states as well. Just impossible.
This mod is defo not suited my playing style. So I'm done with it. Nice try guys. Better luck next time...

Isn't it amazing that you lost?
I mean all civilization games are like puzzle and you need to approach it as a puzzle. The whole idea of a puzzle game is that you do not understand how to solve it until you solve it!
The fact that you lost only means that you've done something wrong, take a look at what you've done and try to figure out where was the mistake. Solve the puzzle!
Take a look at my recent post with screenshots from my game on Deity, i'm pretty sure that you'll find lots of useful ideas there. Also regarding the City-States it might be quest, that grants lots of influence to a player with Statecraft, it might be Great Diplomat, and it might be those 4 diplomats used in 1 turn.

We can't really offer basic advice because the best choice is dependent on context. The only piece of advice that seems to be universal is build workers earlier.

I think another advice is to focus on culture as much as you can

 

[hokath]

Sounds like he got Gazeboed.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I really doubt that relabeling difficulties will help in any meaningful way. Vox Populi is simply more complex and harder to master, and that’s true regardless of what difficulty you play at.

 

[Aristos]

Is my hearing deteriorating or am I hearing what sounds like PC has reached this wonderful Gazebo-bastion of good old school "I like my victories when they come hard" line of thinking?

Please no. Just no.

 

[ElliotS]

Is my hearing deteriorating or am I hearing what sounds like PC has reached this wonderful Gazebo-bastion of good old school "I like my victories when they come hard" line of thinking?

Please no. Just no.

What?