VQ07 - Snakes on Pangea!!

Got it, played. Report herein.

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Because bbobrath played 13 turns to get us to "even", I have to play 7 to get us to real even. Why? Because although the turn-display mod was not loaded, there is still a way to tell turns: through the victory condition screen. It will tell you how many turns left, and in the inherited turn, I see 357 turns left. Meaning I need to play 7 turns to get us really even :crazyeye:

Anyway, quiet turnset, nothing much accomplish. Build us some axes and spears . Still waiting to connect the iron. No tech trades yet, as we are still leading in GNP, and war is imminent, so I did no felt the pressing need to trade tech, Of-course, next player can always trade alpha for maths and head towards construction.

Here is the situation:





One more axe and spear in construction.

Now, why did I say war imminent? Because Gandhi and Toku may have run out of space to settle, so they would likely declare. Mao maybe, there seems to be more land towards the southwest, so perhaps he will not declare early.

In anycase, we are out of space. :)

I would suggest going after Gandhi, since he has no where else to turn to, he may attack us first. So, while I would like to attack Mao first (since Mao is the greater threat), it may not be wise to do so, for fear of Gandhi declaring on us while we were busy engaging Mao.


Notes:

- Capital city is at happiness limit (with ivroy just come on line, removing the angry citizen). Suggest whipping some axes.

- Alternatively, may want to wait until the iron is connected, to whip swords.

- May consider trading for Maths to head for Construction for cats support, but I personally think it will take too long. If it is Gandhi we are going after, whip/produce 6 more axes and we should be able to take Gandhi down.

Spoiler Manual Log :

Turn 0 300BC (-357)

Turn 1 275BC (-356)
Moscow: archer > spear
Rostov: archer > axe

Turn 2 250BC (-355)

Turn 3: 225BC (-354)
S Pete: Barracks > Axeman

Turn 4: 200BC (-353)

Turn 5: 175BC (-352)

Turn 6: 150BC (-351)

Turn 7: 125BC (-350)
Moscow: spear > spear
Rostov: axe > granary


>>>Save (125BC)<<<
 
This is "I got it" but won't play unitil later today..evening. Oh and I will play 350 turns to really even it out LOL......

Updated Roster

Bobrath <-- just played --> No "Wrath of Bob" yet
GreyFox <-- just played--> old blood n guts in a peaceful mood
CosmicHail <-- UP --> Sounds like I'm attacking Ghandi
Armstrong <-- Warring is his favorite past time.
Eektor <-- just played --> Will he finish Ghandi the Great
Maquis <--skipped --> Reported to VQ06a but not VQ07??
 
Was there a screen shot there somewhere GreyFox? Thanks for evening up my evening up of turns.

How close are we to our next Great Person? It should be a scientist (who will give us Mathematics still).
 
Cosmichail said:
Oh and I will play 350 turns to really even it out LOL......

I really hope you wouldn't have to take the full 350 turns to win the game. ;)

Might be better to merge the scientist with the capital.

I personally don't think we have to worry about Gandhi stabbing our back if we go to war with Mao and I like to go after Mao first because he is pretty much right there pushing into our cultural boundaries. But if we were able to entice Toku into war with Mao while we take on Gandhi, that could be better.
 
Ghandi is just becoming the monster tech leader he always does. We either strike him now or wait until we have the numbers to absorb his tech superior units. Only other consideration is the "attacked my friend" negative. I don't know that anyone likes Ghandi, but is that the same story with Mao?
 
Perfect timing Armstrong you are UP now too.

Turn 0

Ok everything is good we obviously need more soldiers.
Toku not interested in war with Mao (doesn’t like us enough – just a test)
Fred offers Meditation/Polytheism for alphabet but I don’t think it’s enough and want Mathematics. Ghandi is very peeved at us.
Mao only has meditation to offer and tell him to go suck bananas. Nappy also only wants to offer meditation.

Turn 1

Hatty wants OB accept to scout her and she too only wants to give Meditation for IW. Nappy offers mathematics for alphabet and accept. Now that’s more like it.





Move axe to what I think is a rally point.

Turn 2

zzzzzzz
worker Schtuff

Turn 3

Start mine at Jungle hill near Rostov.

Turn 4

Workers finish road to iron, we can build swords now.

Turn 5

Hatty has calendar but doesn’t want to trade. We discover drama. Rostov finishes granary start theater to expand borders/happiness. Queue theater at Moscow to get happiness up.



Turn 6

We are at happy limit in St. Petersburg get citizen to work furs. Stagnant now.

Turn 7

Whip sword in Moscow +1 happiness limit. Start theater. Troop deployment.
Worker Schtuff.

Turn 8

We can get Medi/Poly from Herr Frederick for Alpha.

Turn 9

worker schtuff

Turn 10

Ghandi has 3 archers/two axs in/at Lahore.
Worker Schtuff.

 
I just took a look at the save... Mao "has enough on his hands right now" which means he's getting ready to declare on someone (almost certainly us.) I guess that means he'll be the target then...

We will have elephants coming in soon. That's wonderful :)

I think Shanghai is the best first target. It might have room to continue to snake SW, it has gold + wine, and it has a defensible approach. We're going to need some spearmen to defend our two other cities, but cow city could whip a couple in place in 2 turns.

Because Mao has wine, I don't think we'll have much before he gets Feudalism - but cats+elephants are almost as good as cats+macers. Still, I think a quick war might be in order, just to grab Shanghai and his mystery city. He might be a "paper tiger" though, in which case we can press on to Beijing, which is a wonderful city.

He has horses in Beijing, unfortunately, so we can't cut those off. But they shouldn't be a problem once we get some elephants. I don't see that he has HBR yet.

So, some questions for the group:

1. Do we want to wait for Mao to declare on us for diplo reasons?

2. Our scientist (coming in 4 turns) will discover Philosophy for us if we research Meditation (you can get it through the Drama+Med track.) Any objections to that?

3. We can build the Great Lighthouse in 25 turns in St. Pete's, faster if we chop. I don't see a downside to this (assuming we save the proper amount of tundra forests for lumbermills & health, I'll do the math ;)) - we have 2 coastal cities, and I think Gandhi has two also, and toku has 1. Mao probably has 1 or 2. Plus, it's my favorite wonder... I :love: Great Lighthouse.

4. Do we want to go for the Great Library after Construction? We'd have to build it in Moscow I think, and it would delay us getting CoL/CS for a bit which really worries me, but Lit is a cheap tech, and we can us it for NE/HE too. We could send a quick strike team to take Gandhi's marble after we finish playing with Mao.
 
I like the idea of getting the GL and GL. Getting the GL in Moscow will pay off big time. But it will set us back military wise but once we can build those wonder elephants we won't need many. Also getting Philosophy with GS would be great since we don't have a religion yet.

So you think Mao is targetting for us. There is a small force of soldiers gathering. I personally like going after Ghandi since he does run away with the techs eventually.
 
Oh, consider this a "got it." Mao is most definitely going after someone (unless he's already at war?), and we're the only neighbor of his who has lower power than he... so we're the logical target... though, his power is not very high (basically the same as ours now.)
 
Updated Roster

Bobrath <-- --> No "Wrath of Bob" yet
GreyFox <-- --> old blood n guts in a peaceful mood
CosmicHail <-- just played --> Had a jolly cup of tea
Armstrong <-- UP --> Will he get to war with little army?
Eektor <-- on deck--> Who will he be fighting?
Maquis <-- --> Had a cable outage but should be back
 
Cosmichail said:
Updated Roster

...

Armstrong <-- UP --> Will he get to war with little army?

And how ;) I started playing my turns earlier this afternoon, but I got interrupted. I'll post notes & save in about 12 hours.

Short story is that we have a two-headed snake now :)
 
Preturn

Set research to Meditation (so GS can discover Philosophy)
Double whip spearmen in Rostov (so we can defend against Mao's (theoretical) chariots.)

Move our combat stack in position to hit shanghai in 2 turns

Start Great Lighthouse in St. Pete. Gandhi has 3 coastal cities, so this will be worthwhile.

Turn 1 (175 AD)

Whip Lighthouse in Novgorod.

Rostov Spearman -> Spearman
Moscow Theatre -> Axeman

Wait one more turn to see if Mao declares on us first.

Turn 2 (200 AD)

Novgorod finishes Lighthouse -> Library

Homer has been born in Delhi. Great, looks like we're going to get culture bombed.

Hire second scientist in Moscow to get Philosophy next turn.

Declare on Mao.

Turn 3 (225 AD)

Socrates is born in Moscow and discovers Philosophy (who appropriate :))

Rostov finishes Theatre -> Axeman (to make sure Toku doesn't get any ideas)

Mao has axe, archer, chariot in Shanghai. We attack - odds are bad since it has 40% culture already (?) We capture it for the cost of one axeman.

Turn culture up to 10% for happiness in (mostly) Moscow. Trading 10% commerce for 2 happiness in our cities is a good deal :)

Send an archer to scout Mao's other city

Turn 4 (250 AD)

Missionary converts Moscow to Taoism.

Mao's second city is very lightly defended.

Forces regroup.

Gandhi drops his artist at Lahore, it's not a big deal since it's up against Moscow's culture.

Turn 5 (275 AD)

Kill an archer at Mao's iron mine, should be able to strike Nanjing next turn.

Turn 6 (300 AD)

I make some deals. Drama to Napolean for Polytheism & Priesthood.

Gandhi has literature already - he's going to get the Great Library I'd imagine since he has Marble too & is industrious. Blech. We'll need to hit him soon. Hatty & Toku have Monarchy, but the rest don't, so that means no one is that close to Longbowmen (including Gandhi.)

Turn 7 (325 AD)

Finish researching Construction -> Code of Laws. I'm conceding the Great Library to Gandhi, we have other things to put our hammers into, and we'll get it eventually.

Confucianism is founded somewhere.

Moscow Axeman -> Taoist Temple.

Nanjing is captured, no losses. It's a very mediocre city, but I keep it anyway since it fills the space so well.

Turn 8 (350 AD)

Rostov finishes Axeman -> Library
Shanghai comes online and starts a Library

Kill a raiding chariot with a spearman at Rostov.

Start advancing to Beijing.

Turn 9 (375 AD)

Hinduism spreads into Shanghai, giving us 2 religions.

Turn 10 (400 AD)

Forces check out Beijing - 3 archers, spearman... probably too tough to take, but we have some reinforcements coming.

Notes

1. Right now, we have 4 axers and 2 swords outside of Beijing, but it has 3 archers & a spear (on a hill.) We have 2 axers and a spearman who can reinforce in the next 2-3 turns. It's probably best to not pillage Mao's horses, as we would rather fight chariots than archers. We could probably use another axe & spear around Rostov to keep Toku on the level. Hopefully he might move something out (rather than build up to 5-6 archers.)

I considered letting Mao keep Beijing, but the city is too good to pass up.

2. We could build the Heroic Epic now if we research Literature, but it should probably go in Beijing - that city is a production monster (24 hammers at size 8 with just mines+food resources, looking to hit ~62 base hammers eventually.) - I think it's a good HE & IW city.

3. Research is on CoL since our empire is expanding, and en route to Civil Service, though y'all might have better ideas.

4. I traded with Fred for Calendar & Monotheism. I don't know if we want to run a state religion. The top three AI's are all Buddhist. Hatty is looking very strong, but since this is Prince I think she'll slow down. Gandhi got Music in 200 AD (!) but doesn't have Monarchy yet, so we can send some troops his way after Beijing falls.

5. We have spices that need to be hooked up in Moscow.

6. The Great Lighthouse is coming in in 8 turns, though we could pop-rush in sooner.
 
Nice on getting philosophy and going after Mao. Getting the GL will be nice too and if we can whip should just to make sure we get it.

Snakies getting bigger now.

Updated Roster

Bobrath <-- --> No "Wrath of Bob" yet
GreyFox <-- --> old blood n guts in a peaceful mood
CosmicHail <-- --> Had a jolly cup of tea and went for a second
Armstrong <-- just played --> Boy did he use our little army.
Eektor <-- UP--> Will be duking it out with Mao
Maquis <--on deck --> We look forward to his cunning
 
Got it.

@armstrong Quick question - you captured and kept Shanghai and Nanjing? Did one of them fit on our first snake or did they go together with the new snake?
 
The first city you capture from any AI becomes a new snake. So Shanghai is the head of our second snake. Any further cities captured from the same AI can be kept or raized, but do not spawn snakes (and act as blocks if kept). So Nanjing is find to keep, it just gets in the way of any snakey movement.

Also remember that if a head (Shanghai or Rostov currently) gets captured or raized, that snake is dead for the rest of time.
 
Oh I thought you choose the city to start the snake and then have to raze the rest of the cities.

Thanks for the clarification bobrath, I'm not sure where I got that other idea from.
 
Precisely bobrath :) Also note that I put a "(Head)" marker on our two current snake heads so we'll know, though I don't see us building too many more settlers now...
 
The turnset will come up later but for now a quick spoiler.

Beijing was captured with only one loss :worship: RNG :worship:

After checking out two other Chinese cities, I made peace. Mao is pretty much a non factor for the rest of the game.

The Great Lighthouse was completed.

CoL came in and I switched to Metal Casting.

Beijing is in a perfect position to continue our snake from Rostov. So is Beijing the new head or is Rostov still the head of the snake?

Here's the save so you can take a look or play.
 
I think beijing is a blocker, Shanghai is the head of the second head and Rostov is the head of the first snake, if I understand the variant correctly. Good job getting Beijing :goodjob:, but what I odn't understand is if Chinese is going to be a non-factor, why sign peace? Might as well finish him off and rid us of the return-to-homeland penalty.

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