Wanna know why immigrants can't easily integrate?

[Mise]

I agree that the language barrier is the biggest problem. It's hard learning calculus in a foreign language.

 

[Communisto]

i beleive that if a person is going to come to my country because it's better than theirs, they should first master the language.

 

[Shaihulud]

If im poorer than most, i will propably try to integrate than if im richer tgan most. Stands to reason, if im going to a poorer country, then it should be "the host" who benefits more from my presence and the money that i litter their country with. Now if im a poor menial, then i will propably keep my head down and try to integrate. Given the option of staying with a large community of my own folks, what choice is there? At least i will be more familiar with them and get more jobs.

The problems with immigrants integrating is that the city councils aklow them to segregate themselves into getthos, remove the means for them to group togethere and you will propably solve most of the problems.

 

[Aegis]

If you're one of those people who has always wondered why immigrants can't just learn English (or whatever your local language might be) and integrate themselves culturally with the majority in your country, you probably don't understand the experience of being in a foreign land with completely alien customs.

Well, I've got an experiment for you folks to try.

Step one: purchase a plane ticket and a residency visa/work permit to an Asian country of your choice. Preferably a poorer one, but China or even South Korea would do fine.

Step two: set up a neat little life, a house, a job of some sorts, etc. Collect everything you'll need to live for a year.

Step three: live in said conditions for one year.

Step four: examine your life after one year. Take a look at who your friends are, where you go, what you eat, what language you predominantly speak, and how difficult it's been for you to pick up what little you have of the local language.

You'll be surprised to learn that you still mostly hang out with fellow [white, English speaking] foreigners. While you'll probably have a few friends and co-workers who are locals, most of your mates will be fellow falang.

And the language! You have only mastered a few rudimentary phrases in the local language (most likely), and you'll be amazed that the locals will try to speak your language to you! Scratch your head at that one. In your country, you demanded people speak your language, and now that you live in another country where a completely different language is official and predominantly spoken, you come across tons of people who would rather speak to you in your language, the foreign language, than people who will demand you speak the local one!

Culturally, have you changed at all? Not one bit! While you've probably learned to put up with local cultural nuances, ie you are more aware of the value of face, you still adhere to Western customs and the locals for the most part don't seem to care. When you're out with your mates you still conduct yourself in the same manner. You still have the same worldview as before, and you still treat people in the same manner. Yet, no one seems to care!

In short, people don't seem to care that you haven't integrated and adapted to their culture despite the fact that you're living in their country! Strange isn't it?

Step five: repeat these examinations of yourself at the two, five, and ten year marks, if you make it that far of course.

What do you think? Should a white, English speaking foreigner have to adapt in such circumstances?

Poor Asian countries do not offer free ESL classes and have various social programs to help integrate them into society.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Poor Asian countries do not offer free ESL classes and have various social programs to help integrate them into society.

Why would a white, English speaking and relatively wealthy foreigner need an ESL class in an Asian country?

 

[colontos]

i beleive that if a person is going to come to my country because it's better than theirs, they should first master the language.

How are they supposed to master the language before they come? It's VERY difficult to master a language without immersion.

Why would a white, English speaking and relatively wealthy foreigner need an ESL class in an Asian country?

They wouldn't, but they would need a (fill in language)SL class, wouldn't they? Stop being obtuse, Pasi.

 

[Communisto]

How are they supposed to master the language before they come? It's VERY difficult to master a language without immersion.

I don't care how they do it, I just think that they should. They are coming to MY country to benefit and they don't have the courtesy to learn the language properly before they come? It's not that i dislike immigrants at all, i just find it extremely frustrating trying to communicate with a shop owner who can't understand atleast one of the official languages.

 

[Swedishguy]

*calls her great-aunt*

Nope, they can integrate easily. My great-aunt was born in Italy, and didn't even know English when she came over at the age of two. My great-grandmother was 14 when she came over from Germany - didn't know English either. Both integrated well - my great-aunt became a teacher (an English teacher, too!). There are people who've immigrated that can integrate easily. Sure, it might be rough going for the first five years, but they still can.

I have a question for you.

Who have the easiest time integrating: A 2-yearold or a 50-yearold?

 

[Leonel]

I would accept nothing less than a good attempt at learning the language or trying to learn the language. For me, effort counts for a lot. Don't matter if they have an accent until they pass away, as long as the point of what he/she is trying to say is clear.

 

[colontos]

I don't care how they do it, I just think that they should. They are coming to MY country to benefit and they don't have the courtesy to learn the language properly before they come? It's not that i dislike immigrants at all, i just find it extremely frustrating trying to communicate with a shop owner who can't understand atleast one of the official languages.

How many languages do you know?

What you are demanding is nearly impossible. Give people time to learn the language in country. If someone got off the boat yesterday, then they can hardly be expected to be fluent.

 

[Communisto]

How many languages do you know?

how is this relevant? I'm in my OWN country, I speak it's language. If I was going to move to another country, i'd take the time to master the language first.

What you are demanding is nearly impossible. Give people time to learn the language in country. If someone got off the boat yesterday, then they can hardly be expected to be fluent.

they shouldnt be on the boat in the first place if they don't know the language.

 

[Xanikk999]

they shouldnt be on the boat in the first place if they don't know the language.

Why not? ...

 

[Communisto]

Why not? ...

because when they get here it makes it impossible to communicate and inconviniences everyone around them. I don't like it when people come to benefit from my awesome taliban destroying country and then act like I'm ******** when I can't understand what the hell theyre talking about.

 

[Tee Kay]

I don't care how they do it, I just think that they should. They are coming to MY country to benefit and they don't have the courtesy to learn the language properly before they come? It's not that i dislike immigrants at all, i just find it extremely frustrating trying to communicate with a shop owner who can't understand atleast one of the official languages.

Learning a language is one thing, mastering it is another. When I come to Australia I only know a few words in English. It takes me a couple of months before I can say that I'm fluent. It can take other migrants a year or even a few years, depending on how much they spend talking in that language. Mastering a language is result of personal experience in the particular community, not learning blatantly from textbook.

While I agree migrants should know at least the basics before coming to the country, you can't just expect them to be like one of your own instantly.

 

[Communisto]

Learning a language is one thing, mastering it is another. When I come to Australia I only know a few words in English. It takes me a couple of months before I can say that I'm fluent. It can take other migrants a year or even a few years, depending on how much they spend talking in that language. Mastering a language is result of personal experience in the particular community, not learning blatantly from textbook.

While I agree migrants should know at least the basics before coming to the country, you can't just expect them to be like one of your own instantly.

im not asking that, i think we have different definition of mastering. I merely meant they could carry out a conversation with little difficulty (hell some people who have lived here all their lives still suck at language)

 

[colontos]

how is this relevant? I'm in my OWN country, I speak it's language. If I was going to move to another country, i'd take the time to master the language first.

In short, it's relevant because you don't know the first thing about learning language. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

A belligerent monoglot is one of the worst things you can be in life.

 

[Communisto]

In short, it's relevant because you don't know the first thing about learning language. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

A belligerent monoglot is one of the worst things you can be in life.

belligerent? Are you under the impression that i for some reason hate immigrants? I only think they should learn the language before coming here to make it easier on the rest of us. Honestly, no need to invoke your big-word cannons.

 

[Xanikk999]

belligerent? Are you under the impression that i for some reason hate immigrants? I only think they should learn the language before coming here to make it easier on the rest of us. Honestly, no need to invoke your big-word cannons.

Try to think of thier situation.

In some countries that may be impossible or very difficult. Take some poor african country for example, or even closer to home like somewhere like Haiti.

Its not as easy as you think to learn it before coming here. The services arent available everywhere.

 

[Ansar]

I don't get why Haitians come to the US anyways.

Shouldn't they try to head to France?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Why? We are much closer.