War on Drugs?

[~Corsair#01~]

Granted that you will never completely stop people from getting illegal drugs.

You'll never completely eliminate murder or rape or discrimination either. Or guns. Yet, paradoxically, the same people who chant "legalize drugs" are the same people who use War-On-Drugs methods to eliminate guns.

Guns can used to murder people, indeed they have no other purpose. Drugs can only really be taken for personal use.

 

[IglooDame]

Taking a liberty away is taking a liberty away!
A possible use for self defense is not too important. Beer, cars, planes, can all kill people when they are used without responsiblity, yet they are not banned.

Banning things never works. Regulation works. Maybe never 100%, as there is no way to stop people from being responsible 100% of the time.

Guns are no issue here, as simply very very very few people are interested in having guns, so it might not be fair to draw a parallel.
Gun laws allow almost any type of handgun here. I just googled for Dutch gun shops, and this gives a fine overview on what can be purchased legally here:
http://www.slendebroek.serverthuis.nl/html/geweren.html

Yet, you DO need a permit from the police. And every gun transaction is registered.
I think it's not too hard: A government can decide where, when, how, howmuch quite easily.

The same applies to drugs: Government decides what kind of drugs are legal and local government decides who can trade/retail it.

That URL doesn't show any pictures in my browser. :-(

But, from reading around (and not knowing German, my research may be flawed), Dutch gun laws are as follows (roughly cutnpasted from a couple different websites):

Before you are allowed to buy one (1) gun: report of good conduct from the city, be a member of a gunclub for at least 1 year, shoot at least 12 times a year. After another year you can buy up to 4 additional guns, which increases the number of times you have to shoot.
Your gun has to be stored in a strongbox or safe with the munition in a seperate safe (locked subcompartment in the primary safe also allowed). Transport (unloaded) only allowed from your house to your gunclub or a gunshop. No concealed carry. No semi-automatic firearms (which is about 2/3 of all handguns).

Essentially, more strict in many ways than New York City, Massachusetts, Maryland, or California (four or our five strictest places) and only less strict than Washington D.C where handguns are entirely banned.

I wonder if guns are not popular there because you have to jump through such hoops (particularly the year-in-advance-at-a-gun-club) and can't use them for defensive purposes anyway. I also can't think of any internationally-recognized shooting sport offhand that features revolvers as opposed to semiautomatics, so even "sporting purposes" are greatly reduced.

Sorry for the threadjack.

 

[Stapel]

Sorry - it means I wouldn't particularly like to move to the Netherlands, nor would I particularly like to move to Sudan.

I guess you'd prefer one of the other if you were forced to move .

 

[IglooDame]

Guns can used to murder people, indeed they have no other purpose. Drugs can only really be taken for personal use.

Point of fact - murder is the incorrect term. Guns can be used to kill people. If it is unjustified homicide, it is manslaughter or murder, otherwise it is excusable or justifiable homicide. Other purposes include hunting and target-shooting.

 

[IglooDame]

I guees you'd prefer one of the other if you were forced to move .

Depends on the surrounding circumstances. I can think of some that would take me to Sudan.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I wonder if guns are not popular there because you have to jump through such hoops (particularly the year-in-advance-at-a-gun-club) and can't use them for defensive purposes anyway. I also can't think of any internationally-recognized shooting sport offhand that features revolvers as opposed to semiautomatics, so even "sporting purposes" are greatly reduced.

First of all, as far as I know your translation is correctish.
Guns aren't popular here. The strict regulations are a consequence of that, not the cause. Why guns aren't popular here I wouldn't know for sure; but it probably has something to do with that we discovered that guns kill people.
If 2 people are in a fight with their bare hands, the worst that usually happens is a broken rib, broken jaw, a bruise or a black eye. When 2 people are in a fight with guns you'd be happy to only get a broken rib.

 

[Stapel]

and can't use them for defensive purposes anyway.

The idea of defending property and family with a gun simply has no ground here.

I also think that statistics show that using a gun to protect your stuff in the US, actually increases the chance that you get killed yourself.

But, now we are really threadjacking!

 

[IglooDame]

The idea of defending property and family with a gun simply has no ground here.

I also think that statistics show that using a gun to protect your stuff in the US, actually increases the chance that you get killed yourself.

But, now we are really threadjacking!

I suspect that the statistic you are referencing is one that has been discredited, but I'll cease threadjacking now.

 

[nonconformist]

Stand back, or I'll trip! Yeah, man I'll get stoned outta my head! You'll be sorry when the pink hippos come!

 

[Bronx Warlord]

News flash - Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

England banned guns and gun crime is on the up and up, reminads me of something a wiseman said about outlawing guns so that only outlaws will have them.

Back to the topic, I was working with a youth services group today in the south bronx, one of the most crime ridden areas on the planet per captia. Well after a nice two mile run, I talked to some of the kids about drugs in there areas, and what they see. Mind you these kids were from 14-16.

Almost all of them knew what these terms ment.

Yeyo - Cocaine
H Bomb - Heroin
Trees - Pot
Burner - Gun

I asked them if they knew the pledge of alligance, none did.

I asked them if they could name two amendments from the constitution, two out of ten could.

I asked them if they knew who FDR, Stalin and Hitler were... they knew Hitler and that was about it.

Now I'm thinking we decriminalize drugs, make pot legal and instead of spening 19.3 billion on arresting people provide education and treatment.

On a side note, it took these kids about 30 minutes to run two miles

I'll have to start a thread about the evils of fast " food " soon it's looks like.