Looks like
Waterboarding
- Thread starter Patricman
- Start date
woody60707
Deity
Wait, are people SURPRISED to learn that the US has been weatherboarding people???
have you been leaving in a cave for the past 6 years.
I am very much against the use of torture. But torture does work. They have ways to ensure the CIA doesn't get fooled by what you just said.
have you been leaving in a cave for the past 6 years.
I am very much against the use of torture. But torture does work. They have ways to ensure the CIA doesn't get fooled by what you just said.
Monkeyfinger
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,002
Waterboarding terrorists = good. Assuming that our agents are competent enough to find the real terrorists to be waterboarded = bad.
Governments don't deserve the privilege of being able to torture. They don't use it properly.
Governments don't deserve the privilege of being able to torture. They don't use it properly.
woody60707
Deity
Torturing anyone is bad. They are still people, good or bad doesn't matter. All people deserve a basic level of treatment and respect.
Universal human rights aren't really rights if you can do away with them simply because you don't like someone.
YonatanBlum
Warlord
Universal human rights is a good state of things, one that any government should try to achieve. Yet where does one draw the line? How about locking people in cages, against their will, or even forcing them to do community work? To me these simple every-day things seem to disregard universal human rights. Perhaps forceful interrogation (torture), at some point, is merely more of the same? I am still undecided.
Yeah, it's called chasing down bad leads.
I think we are more likely to get useful information from potential terrorists by torturing them than by not torturing them. People who suggest that we may get wrong confession through torture are absolutely right, but they are overlooking the fact that we will be missing out on a lot of useful ones if we don't torture these bastards.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
I'm with Monkeyfinger. It's the same reason I'm against the death penalty. If we know for a fact that someone is guilty, I have no problem torturing them for information or executing them. But I have confidence in our system to actually get the right people, even the majority of the time, let alone all the time.
Should we torture you to see if you have useful information? We don't know for sure whether you do or not until we torture you.
Berzerker
Deity
If some nutcase buried my kid with a limited supply of O2, I'd do whatever it took to get the information I need to save my kid. I assume this is what interrogators have in mind when they got someone important, the faster they get the information the better. Waterboarding is acceptable on people we know to be terrorists, that limits its use to maybe a few dozen people but if it works...it works... If someone is trying to kill me, do I have to respect their human rights? I dont think so, I just gotta make sure they're guilty.
Shylock
Hey smiling strange
capturing people who have harmed or hurt others and torturing them. not just random people.And Jesus does believe in taking revenge. he says it in the bible. and there have been PLENTY of harsh Christian people in the past.
Bad news. A lot of these people in Gitmo are in fact random people they just found in the wrong place or were given to the Americans by their enemies sometimes.
Torture doesn't really work on getting useful information.
Waterboarding isn't acceptable because it's a fundamental violation of their natural rights. End of story. If someone is trying to kill you and you capture them, you absolutely do have to respect their human rights.
Berzerker
Deity
it apparently worked on that sheik dude in the embarrassing T-shirt. If the person being tortured doesn't have useful info, then the stuff they do give us will slow our search for good info. Thats the only negative I can see, other than our reputation
... But if they do have useful info, waterboarding is a relatively safe way (safe for them actually) to get it.
Berzerker
Deity
So if a nutcase buried yer kid with limited O2, you'd turn him over to the authorities rather than dunk his head in water to save yer kid? Not me... Is putting people in cages for committing crimes a violation of their natural rights? If someone is trying to kill me, I'm justified in killing them. I didn't ask you about capturing them, dont change my question to avoid answering it
you do realize that there have already been plenty of documented cases of innocent people being detained illegally because they were misidentified as terrorists right?
just think about how bad it would be to under go that kind of torture even though you are completely innocent. this is why we have the legal system today. george bush trying to subvert this system is completely unacceptable. since you are probably white, you will never have to worry about such a thing happening to you, but as a minority, my heart is saddened by anyone who even looks arab who has to be subjected to this kind of crap.
edit: as for the bible, it should be completely obvious to anyone whose read it that yhwh supports rape, genocide, murder, infanticide, and so on and so forth as long as it is your enemy. as for jesus, since yhwh is jesus, and jesus is yhwh, then so does jesus. but if you read the gospels, jesus says turn the other cheek. he also says: "Rather, love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them, expecting nothing in return. "
philippe
FYI, I chase trains.
I would much prefer letting JEws doing the interoggation, I once saw a great documentary on British Jews interrogating nazis by playing good cop, bad cop. (In this case a British officer and a soviet officer)
They never resorted to waterboarding, not even in such deserate times. In fact, japanese officers got executed by USA military courts for waterboarding marines.
Lessons from the past...
They never resorted to waterboarding, not even in such deserate times. In fact, japanese officers got executed by USA military courts for waterboarding marines.
Lessons from the past...
So if a nutcase buried yer kid with limited O2, you'd turn him over to the authorities rather than dunk his head in water to save yer kid? Not me... Is putting people in cages for committing crimes a violation of their natural rights? If someone is trying to kill me, I'm justified in killing them. I didn't ask you about capturing them, dont change my question to avoid answering it
Hey, you're perfectly right in using your right to self defense when it's justified... But you don't have a right to torture them. Torture is prima facie immoral.
I disagree Bill, at least a bit. Just like with assisted suicide, one can kill someone with their consent. In Berzerker's scenario, the criminal has created (and thus consented to) a social contract where he will kill your child unless you torture him.
Now, that is only true in the most extreme cases (like the given scenario), but I think it's still true.
Yes, many members of the current administration deserve extreme interrogation techniques.
Now, that is only true in the most extreme cases (like the given scenario), but I think it's still true.
Yes, many members of the current administration deserve extreme interrogation techniques.
There's a difference between a "social contract" and actual consent to be tortured, like, say, if you were into BSDM.
Similar threads
