Wealth! How much is enough?

[El_Machinae]

I still think that creating a wealth cap would create some type of moving target, so it's really hard to predict the knock-on effects. As ama asks ... "what's the goal?"

 

[cardgame]

I still think that creating a wealth cap would create some type of moving target, so it's really hard to predict the knock-on effects. As ama asks ... "what's the goal?"

slay the dragon

 

[Kyriakos]

I still think that creating a wealth cap would create some type of moving target, so it's really hard to predict the knock-on effects. As ama asks ... "what's the goal?"

I think that instead of a cap, there could be mandatory "public-works" for those who have over a (very large) amount.
In ancient Athens any over-rich citizen had to choose to fund either the fleet (pay for one trireme) or the costs for stage productions (drama) or other work which benefited all the citizens and the polis.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I still think that creating a wealth cap would create some type of moving target, so it's really hard to predict the knock-on effects. As ama asks ... "what's the goal?"

To put all that excess capital to work for he benefit of the bottom 50%.

 

[Hygro]

slay the dragon

Only heroes slay dragons.

 

[Patine]

slay the dragon

And just have a new elite created out of the mess. "Betrayal of the Revolution," by Leon Trotsky is very instructive in analyzing this phenomenon, that seems almost ingrained to human nature. It detailed how Stalin became the new Czar, how the political leadership of the Party become the new Aristocracy, how the Party bureaucrats and managers of the Nomenklatura became the new Bourgeoisie, how the Party commissars, doctrinaires, and propagandists became the new Eastern Orthodox Church, and how the "proud workers and farmers," became the new feudally-bound and drudge serfs and peasants.

 

[Zardnaar]

And just have a new elite created out of the mess. "Betrayal of the Revolution," by Leon Trotsky is very instructive in analyzing this phenomenon, that seems almost ingrained to human nature. It detailed how Stalin became the new Czar, how the political leadership of the Party become the new Aristocracy, how the Party bureaucrats and managers of the Nomenklatura became the new Bourgeoisie, how the Party commissars, doctrinaires, and propagandists became the new Eastern Orthodox Church, and how the "proud workers and farmers," became the new feudally-bound and drudge serfs and peasants.

That's the problem with revolutions you just replace one elite with the next lot.

 

[cardgame]

Only heroes slay dragons.

do you wanna build a snowman be a hero?

 

[Lexicus]

Only heroes slay dragons.

Real heroes transform into dragons, super-long Chinese style and cerulean colored

 

[Birdjaguar]

And ....How MacKenzie Scott helped NM:

Billionaire gives millions to New Mexico groups

Ex-wife of Amazon’s Bezos helps counter pandemic ‘wrecking ball’

BY ADRIAN GOMEZ AND THERESA DAVIS JOURNAL STAFF WRITERS

Philanthropist MacKenzie Scott has donated nearly $4.2 billion over the last four months to 384 organizations across 50 states, including generous donations just given to seven New Mexico groups.

The seven New Mexico organizations on the list are United Way of Central New Mexico, Meals on Wheels of Albuquerque, Goodwill Industries of New Mexico, Roadrunner Food Bank, Navajo and Hopi Families COVID-19 Relief, Navajo Technical University in Crownpoint and the Institute of American Indian Arts in Santa Fe.

“This pandemic has been a wrecking ball in the lives of Americans already struggling,” Scott writes. “Economic losses and health outcomes alike have been worse for women, for people of color, and for people living in poverty. Meanwhile, it has substantially increased the wealth of billionaires.”

Scott donated $10 million to United Way of Central New Mexico, $5 million to the Institute of American Indian Arts in Santa Fe and $750,000 to Meals on Wheels of Albuquerque. Roadrunner isn’t disclosing the amount of its donation, and amounts for the remaining organizations were not immediately available. According to Scott, the entire sum committed is paid upfront and is given with “no strings attached.” Scott, the former wife of billionaire and Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, said in a blog post on Tuesday that some donations are filling basic needs: food banks, emergency relief funds, and support services for the most vulnerable.

Others are addressing long-term systemic inequities that have been deepened by the crisis: debt relief, employment training, credit and financial services for communities lacking resources, education for historically marginalized and under served people, civil rights advocacy groups, and legal defense funds that take on institutional discrimination, she wrote.

“COVID-19 remains a threat to our communities as we continue our work to mitigate the health and economic impact of the pandemic,” said Rodney Prunty, CEO of United Way of Central New Mexico. “This generous donation will ensure that this work continues through the recovery phase and help us to rebuild and come back even stronger.” IAIA will use the donation it received to offer financial and technical assistance to its students. The money may also be used for scholarships, a Research Center for Contemporary Native Arts, and additional graduate programs. IAIA President Robert MartinsaidScott’sdonation will be “transformational.” “Most importantly, it will help to ensure that we achieve our vision to continue expanding our mission to offer culturally based undergraduate and graduate programs that benefit Indigenous peoples in the arts,” Martin said.

Shauna Frost, Meals on Wheels of Albuquerque executive director, said the money will help support the group’s efforts to feed the community during the pandemic. “Our mission is to serve some of the most vulnerable in our community, and we have seen the need for our services grow exponentially this year,” Frost said in an emailed statement. “This generous gift will allow us to take the necessary steps to ensure the stability of these increased services so that we may continue to serve our hungry and homebound neighbors for years to come.” Sonya Warwick, spokesperson for the Roadrunner Food Bank, said the organization is not yet disclosing the donation amount it will receive, as donation terms are being completed. “We are honored and humbled to receive this special contribution,” Warwick said in a statement. “It will definitely have positive and long-term ramifications on the services we provide, touching the lives of the many New Mexico communities and the people we serve.”

To select the 384 organizations, Scott’s team sought suggestions and perspective from hundreds of field experts, funders, and nonprofit leaders and volunteers with decades of experience. “We leveraged this collective knowledge base in a collaboration that included hundreds of emails and phone interviews, and thousands of pages of data analysis on community needs, program outcomes, and each non-profit’s capacity to absorb and make effective use of funding,” Scott wrote. “We looked at 6,490 organizations, and undertook deeper research into 822. We put 438 of these on hold for now due to insufficient evidence of impact, unproven management teams, or to allow for further inquiry about specific issues such as treatment of community members or employees.”

Scott is no stranger to donating to New Mexico organizations. On July 28, American Indian Graduate Center in Albuquerque learned of a $20 million donation from Scott. “(I have) a conviction that people who have experience with inequities are the ones best equipped to design solutions,” Scott said in a statement in July.

 

[El_Machinae]

To put all that excess capital to work for he benefit of the bottom 50%.

I don't think that would happen. I don't see any reason why a more successful middle-class would care about the poorest 50% of the planet.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I don't think that would happen. I don't see any reason why a more successful middle-class would care about the poorest 50% of the planet.

Almost all of that excess wealth is held by the top 1% and not by successful middle class households. In any case, they might care about the bottom 50% of the US population.

From a WSJ article about taxing the rich in NY.

...Ms. Stewart-Cousins’s team is willing to impose new levies on New Yorkers reporting $2 million or more in annual income, the state official said. Another official familiar with the talks said Assembly negotiators are willing to increase taxes on people reporting annual income of at least $1 million.

Just more than half of the roughly $50 billion New York collects each year of personal income taxes is paid by 188,000 tax filers—the highest- earning 2% of the state’s tax base, according to the state budget office.

New York state now taxes personal income over $1,077,550 at a rate of 8.82%, and New York City levies an additional tax. Assembly Democrats have for several years proposed enacting new brackets at $5 million, $10 million and $100 million of income, which the labor-backed Fiscal Policy Institute estimated in May would generate an additional $2 billion of revenue each fiscal year. If income over $1 million were taxed at 10.75%, the rate just adopted by New Jersey lawmakers, the state could generate an additional $5.28 billion a year, FPI estimated in the same report.

Mr. Heastie said talks are fluid, adding that he was worried that a retroactive increase would be subject to a legal challenge.

We'll see how this goes.

 

[El_Machinae]

Almost all of that excess wealth is held by the top 1% and not by successful middle class households. In any case, they might care about the bottom 50% of the US population.

Right, so the wealth would transfer from the richest to the bottom of the country, making that country's middle class more wealthy.

I'm not at all convinced that this would help the bottom 50% of the globe. We'd need a zeitgeist change, where the middle class becomes more generous. It could happen, but I see no financial mechanism available

 

[Birdjaguar]

Right, so the wealth would transfer from the richest to the bottom of the country, making that country's middle class more wealthy.

I'm not at all convinced that this would help the bottom 50% of the globe. We'd need a zeitgeist change, where the middle class becomes more generous. It could happen, but I see no financial mechanism available

Why should the middle class be donating to the benefit of the poorest when all the excess money resides with the richest. They should be ones bearing the cost. Once the richest have made their contributions, we can worry about the rest of us.

 

[El_Machinae]

That's a bit like not jumping into a pool to save a toddler, because there is a teenager standing beside you. "He's more capable, why should I go?"

But I was talking about the future case of your proposal. I asked what is the point of the wealth cap, and you said to help the bottom 50%.

I don't see a mechanism by which a wealth cap would help the bottom 50%.

 

[Lexicus]

That's a bit like not jumping into a pool to save a toddler, because there is a teenager standing beside you. "He's more capable, why should I go?"

That's complete bullfeathers. A better analogy would be hundreds of kids drowning in a big lake, and asking me to swim around saving the kids when there's a guy with a motorboat just sitting around doing nothing.

 

[stinkubus]

Downward redistribution is a virtuous circle. I wouldn't take for granted the idea that the American middle class needs to be tapped into. Just getting the US to end imperial practices which suppress growth rates in the "developing" world alone would be more than enough to substantially improve the lot of the global poor.

 

[El_Machinae]

That's complete bullfeathers. A better analogy would be hundreds of kids drowning in a big lake, and asking me to swim around saving the kids when there's a guy with a motorboat just sitting around doing nothing.

Yes. I didn't capture the disparity, and you did much better. But the refusal to jump into the lake is still on you, because you know the present circumstances and the opportunity cost of your dry socks

It's this weird moral zeitgeist, where people absolve themselves of responsibility towards others, because they insist that other people have greater responsibility. It doesn't work that way.

It's the flip side of absolving yourself of responsibility because you didn't create the situation that created the need for rescue.

But disagreements aside about whether or not I actually owe effort towards people that are a thousand times poorer than I am, I don't see how making me richer will help them. At least, not mechanistically.

 

[Birdjaguar]

there is nothing to prevent middle class people from helpiong, but I feel that the responsibility should be iwth those that have the resources to make significant change. government and the very rich. Who else has billions of dollars on hand?

 

[El_Machinae]

There is a lot preventing the middle class from helping, for example, liberals telling each other that they don't have to.

Again, I was talking about your wealth cap. Whether or not we currently have the moral responsibility to help the bottom 50%, I don't see a mechanistic reason why we would increase our aid if we were getting a larger share of our national income

Downward redistribution is a virtuous circle. I wouldn't take for granted the idea that the American middle class needs to be tapped into. Just getting the US to end imperial practices which suppress growth rates in the "developing" world alone would be more than enough to substantially improve the lot of the global poor.

Ending imperialism might help, might not. A wealth cap wouldn't end imperialism, just spread the benefits. We would still want cheap bananas