What can the Democrats do?

[danjuno]

Pretty sure the rich are part of society.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Not when it comes to taxation, they're not. Put 'em back in, I say. Or tax 'em the way you tax society. However you want to get at it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Not when it comes to taxation, they're not. Put 'em back in, I say. Or tax 'em the way you tax society. However you want to get at it.

That's what I mean by society vs the rich.

Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.

 

[Ajidica]

It’s broadly true that certain policies like M4A poll well, but also broadly true that single issue polling is a pseudoscience in every meaning of that word, with wildly divulging results based on how questions are phrased or answers ordered, and this holds true for progressive or conservative single issues. I’ve been increasingly convinced over the last few years that single issues polling is essentially worthless; it minimizes what is needed to be politically successful and makes everyone from every side of politics dumber. Especially centrists, who seem to think political opinion is both unmovable and can be perfectly triangulated unless they have a book to sell about 1 billion Americans. But it rots the brain of those on the left and right too.

Obligatory Yes Minister clip on polling.

 

[amadeus]

that's a crazy first question to ask (and actually hard to figure why they don't get 100% as their results), since "do any of these sixteen labels, or none of them, describe your politics" is pretty much an exhaustive set of possibilities.

It might be an exhaustive list but if you want to narrow down how people feel, giving them options and then having them select one is going to bias the results more than if they were asked a question along the lines of “what word would you use to identify/label yourself politically?”

An open-ended question like that has its own problems if you are trying to measure the number of people that identify as one of the sixteen given options, but I think by and large the kind of thing we (in this thread) are trying to approach is: how many progressives are there?, and I don’t think the survey here really gave us a solid result.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Oh, I'm not faulting the poll on those grounds, amadeus. It's probably as good as anything else might be to get at how people think of themselves politically. I'm just laughing that a poll asks, "do you identify with any of these options or not?" and there's still 5% of the population that can't fit. Nope, I'm none of those things, but I'm also not none of those things. Probably just 5% that didn't answer at all.

 

[amadeus]

I'm just laughing that a poll asks, "do you identify with any of these options or not?" and there's still 5% of the population that can't fit.

I think, if anything, that would be expected—people might just not be that tuned in, interested, maybe uncertain, or maybe just not comfortable talking about it.

I think too with how many poll options there were, and this is just my perspective, I might be hesitant to give support to too many labels out of an anxiety that is rooted in … I think people want to give accurate information, but maybe when pressed with so many given options, feel more reluctant to identify with too many.

 

[Gori the Grey]

That's another explanation for the results. Carry on, all, with the main discussion; I didn't mean to derail the thread.

 

[Hygro]

Where in the world is centrism winning? Where is the centre a growing influence and gathering momentum? Where is centrism not losing to populists/far right?

And who simultaneously believes the centre is the antidote to fascism but also we should adopt some of the far right's policies as step to electability

centrism; the survival technique for after the fact. Full of a healthy mix of cowards, sympathizers, and the truly unthinking.

 

[Zardnaar]

centrism; the survival technique for after the fact. Full of a healthy mix of cowards, sympathizers, and the truly unthinking.

Insult people whose support you need. Great plan.

Most probably dont give to much of a **** between MAGA and Progressives.

A goid chunk who dont vote probably that way as well.

 

[innonimatu]

Okay, in the US our most prominent centrists are currently characterizing labor unions as rent-seeking luddites who are the main obstacle standing in the way of "abundance", so now what?

You should be told that the claim you were answering to was a complete lie. The ruling "centrist" government here is busy now attemping to pass new legislation to further degrade worker's rights. One example: it will enable bosses to force workers to work two extra houers per day. In theory workers can demand compensation, but the legislation also add that the boss can now fire workers at will, without cause. Therefore anyone who demands compensation will just be fired, meaning that workers will fear to demand compensation. That's the kind of petty, but very real in its social impact, evil we have here. That's, btw, the kind of petty evil @Ordnael supports, as his political alignment is quite clear: the make-believe fascists who are no more than liberals passing themselves off as "right-wing anti-immigration populists" known as "Chega". A party financed and directed by the most incapable of the local oligarchs, those whose businesses are focused solely on importing and exploiting low-paid labour for services and tourism, not on actually producing stuff (indutsry) which in theory would allow for increased productivity and higher wages. Even as capitalists they are petty and backwards, and so they want to shape the country to fit their needs.

Certain portions the populationm, a lumpenproletariat of those who think themselves temporalily embarassed rich, and even those who just bask on the fictitious value of their houses within the current credit bubble, support this. But it is the young spawn of the economic elites are the most vocal and the ones directing these parties. Doctor Ventura, who was a fraudster peddling craptocurrencies prior to being cast as one of the oligarchs's pet politicians, and the most successfult currently, is a good example of the lumpenproletariat who belives itself rich, and wants to become rich, having fully embraced liberalism, by any means whatsoever.

In short: the political situation in Portugal is following that of other european countries. Unfortunately we always copy the very worst of Britan, the Britain that is now going down the sewer. But so are many other european countries. Including importing masses of low-wage migrants to depress wages. The only advantage is that we're about a decade behind and thw whole europeaa liberal circus will crash and burn soon before the end of this decade.

 

[Hygro]

Insult people whose support you need. Great plan.

Most probably dont give to much of a **** between MAGA and Progressives.

A goid chunk who dont vote probably that way as well.

You imagine "centrists" to be this like 60% group. I would say they are less than 15%. They love republicans every chance they can convince themselves. Centrists are a special kind of radical who will always position themselves in the middle, no matter how extreme the middle gets thanks to any wing going off the deep end. No thought given to value, let alone values, and all through given to "well no one will kill me if it gets too extreme". Selfish actors.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I think most centrists are just those folks who average their more hard core left and right desires and end up in the middle because they want elements from both sides. As the balance of power shifts politically, they likely tend to swing in the other direction because they don't want to lose their opposite longings.

 

[danjuno]

Insult people whose support you need. Great plan.

Most probably dont give to much of a **** between MAGA and Progressives.

A goid chunk who dont vote probably that way as well.

Ironic from someone who spends all their time talking down to leftists.

 

[Lexicus]

You should be told that the claim you were answering to was a complete lie.

I am kind of insulted you would think I don't know this.

 

[amadeus]

Ventura, who was a fraudster

You had one of those too?

 

[Broken_Erika]

You had one of those too?

Weird that 2 actors in Predator went on to be governors and a third rand for Governor but dropped out.

 

[Zardnaar]

You imagine "centrists" to be this like 60% group. I would say they are less than 15%. They love republicans every chance they can convince themselves. Centrists are a special kind of radical who will always position themselves in the middle, no matter how extreme the middle gets thanks to any wing going off the deep end. No thought given to value, let alone values, and all through given to "well no one will kill me if it gets too extreme". Selfish actors.

Ones that turn up to vote? Probably 10%.

Ones that are swing voters Probably less than 5%.

Problem being the margins are often 1% or less. Eg Trump in 2016.

Democrats around 1 in 3 that turn up to vote. Republicans something similar.

Each swing voters is worth 2-1. Swing voters in swing state .......

 

[EnglishEdward]

Centrists are a special kind of radical

I don't know what centrists are.

I suspect that they include a lot of those who can not make their minds up.

Now other people have other definitions.

But I do not think that centrists are any form of radical.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't know what centrists are.

I suspect that they include a lot of those who can not make their minds up.

Now other people have other definitions.

But I do not think that centrists are any form of radical.

Swing voters and centre left/right types who aren't fanatic about it.

Hell some just follow the polls or nicest smile.