[RD] What does free speech mean?

[Cloud_Strife]

What’s the relevance of that? Of course it would be more than occasional if we’re talking about a serial thread with 1,000 posts, right?

Society still tells women that their biggest asset is their beauty, there's something gauche about reinforcing that harmful stereotype, even if it doesn't seem so crass to others.

Babes threads have a very different message to an art gallery.
They suggest a place that belongs to me, where women are welcome on sufferance at best, an attitude that many male gamers have displayed in the past. I'm glad this site has moved on from that.

Although not exactly the same, there is a similar dynamic with men who like transgirls. Usually it involves fetishization by the former of the latter. It's usually accompanied by a general ignorance of the issues transgirls face, a sort of semi-tolerance for self-gratifications sake.

Not necessarily, no. And, I mean, lathering on the adjectives isn’t honing in on some attributes that would make me uncomfortable in particular. I did say “hunks” didn’t I? I’m picturing exactly what you are.

Okay, but those attributes might make *others* uncomfortable and might deter them from posting/staying.

 

[Patine]

Babes threads have a very different message to an art gallery.
They suggest a place that belongs to me, where women are welcome on sufferance at best, an attitude that many male gamers have displayed in the past. I'm glad this site has moved on from that.

Models (men and women) who pose for calendar and other scripted and set pictures - scantily or sky clad - in most modern circumstances of legal, published circulation, know what they're doing, want to be so photographed, and have a pretty good idea of the thoughts and feelings of those viewing those pictures, and they're paid for it, on contract.

 

[Patine]

Babes threads have a very different message to an art gallery.
They suggest a place that belongs to me, where women are welcome on sufferance at best, an attitude that many male gamers have displayed in the past. I'm glad this site has moved on from that.

And, indeed, blocking everything that might disturb or offend ANYONE from EVERYONE was a big part of the sugar-coated, clinical, mandatory G-rated dystopia presented in the movie "Demolition Man."

 

[AmazonQueen]

Models (men and women) who pose for calendar and other scripted and set pictures - scantily or sky clad - in most modern circumstances of legal, published circulation, know what they're doing, want to be so photographed, and have a pretty good idea of the thoughts and feelings of those viewing those pictures, and they're paid for it, on contract.

That's their choice, it still doesn't make it something I want to find on a gaming site.

 

[Patine]

That's their choice, it still doesn't make it something I want to find on a gaming site.

If the thread is clearly labelled such, don't visit it. People shouldn't come to this thread about free speech to post or expect kitten pictures, should they?

 

[Zardnaar]

If the thread is clearly labelled such, don't visit it. People shouldn't come to this thread about free speech to post or expect kitten pictures, should they?

Hi.

Big kitten.

 

[Patine]

Hi.
View attachment 539892

Big kitten.

You're derailing my point here...

 

[AmazonQueen]

You're derailing my point here...

You were suggesting that the answer to threads that have content that offended me would be not to visit that thread.
I suspect that could set a very bad precedent.

 

[Farm Boy]

At this point, I guess you should probably report the guy that posted the enormous pussy.

 

[Zardnaar]

CFC is private space though, the powers that be set the rules whatever those rules may be.

If Cloud had a private forum open to the public it's up to Cloud the set the rules who posts.

The government's not gonna throw you in jail for what you post on CFC. Or defend you.

 

[Patine]

You were suggesting that the answer to threads that have content that offended me would be not to visit that thread.
I suspect that could set a very bad precedent.

So would everyone demanding every thread they even remotely felt offended by or uncomfortable with (very subjective feelings and viewpoints, varying sharply by individual) should be deleted and banned, even if they had no intention to visit them. How many actual threads would be have left, if that were the case?

 

[Truthy]

That's their choice, it still doesn't make it something I want to find on a gaming site.

Farmboy’s point was very good. I sense we’re running into a conflict with human sexuality here. It is true that sex preoccupies a huge amount of brain space. And, you know, I won’t cop to the suggestion that sexuality in general is inherently problematic. Nor male sexuality, which tends to be characterized by higher libido and visual stimuli, in particular. So there’s this issue of what spaces can serve, at least in part, as outlets for some of the kinds of things that are on most people’s mind... whether it’s babes or hunks. And of course that entails making a request to limit what I can say here.

For example: “I think Debbie Harry is hot [see my avatar].” And I mean, it’s not necessarily an objectification thing. Seeing her less as object can make her more appealing.

 

[Farm Boy]

You are correct. It is very much being argued that discussing visually motivated desire is demeaning and objectifying. Talk about a huge amount of needless disease in the thought process.

"This person is aroused by the appearance of members of their preferred gender(s). Pictures of them in provocative poses appropriate for the public is tantamount to viewing them as a screwdriver. We cannot stand for this barbarity, it wounds us."

Though, I suppose you could look at all the threads here, and decide what preferences advertising revenue is going to take into account as it molds the environment people interact in and why.

 

[Truthy]

Society still tells women that their biggest asset is their beauty, there's something gauche about reinforcing that harmful stereotype, even if it doesn't seem so crass to others.



Although not exactly the same, there is a similar dynamic with men who like transgirls. Usually it involves fetishization by the former of the latter. It's usually accompanied by a general ignorance of the issues transgirls face, a sort of semi-tolerance for self-gratifications sake.



Okay, but those attributes might make *others* uncomfortable and might deter them from posting/staying.

So, are there any spaces where swimsuit calendars or babe threads are ok? Should they be male-only spaces? Spaces that announce the presence of adult content outright? Porn sites only? And if any of said spaces are construed as objectifying, are they also verboten in principle (perhaps even if tolerated in practice)?

 

[Farm Boy]

I dunno. I'm sure you'll know it when you see it.

 

[Patine]

CFC is private space though, the powers that be set the rules whatever those rules may be.

If Cloud had a private forum open to the public it's up to Cloud the set the rules who posts.

The government's not gonna throw you in jail for what you post on CFC. Or defend you.

Well, if you make online death threats, leak classified information, or recruit for a terrorist organization on CFC, they might throw you in jail.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Farmboy’s point was very good. I sense we’re running into a conflict with human sexuality here. It is true that sex preoccupies a huge amount of brain space. And, you know, I won’t cop to the suggestion that sexuality in general is inherently problematic. Nor male sexuality, which tends to be characterized by higher libido and visual stimuli, in particular. So there’s this issue of what spaces can serve, at least in part, as outlets for some of the kinds of things that are on most people’s mind... whether it’s babes or hunks. And of course that entails making a request to limit what I can say here.

For example: “I think Debbie Harry is hot [see my avatar].” And I mean, it’s not necessarily an objectification thing. Seeing her less as object can make her more appealing.

A babes thread is something different to your commenting that you feel that Debbie Harry is hot.
An entire thread devoted to pictures of women solely because the posters found them sexually attractive.
That doesn't seem appropriate to a games site that's supposed to be welcoming to everyone.

So would everyone demanding every thread they even remotely felt offended by or uncomfortable with (very subjective feelings and viewpoints, varying sharply by individual) should be deleted and banned, even if they had no intention to visit them. How many actual threads would be have left, if that were the case?

I haven't demanded that they be banned. I would be uncomfortable with them and less likely to use the site if they were allowed. I'm happy that the site doesn't currently allow them but as Zaadnar said that a matter for CFC to decide.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

"This person is aroused by the appearance of members of their preferred gender(s). Pictures of them in provocative poses appropriate for the public is tantamount to viewing them as a screwdriver. We cannot stand for this barbarity, it wounds us."

What is with this disingenuousness? Even before the advent of pornography as we currently understand it, women were objectified not just socially, but legally, they were literally seen as the property of their husbands or family.

You don't need to be some bleeding heart liberal to acknowledge that wasn't and still isn't, a healthy environment or place to be in.

Even worse is when you look at those growing up who are forced, by societal pressure, to yearn for the unrealistic standards set by the bodies they see, it leads to mental illness, eating disorder, suicide and self harm, even in adults. It doesn't benefit anyone in the long term for this cycle to continue unchallenged.

 

[CurtSibling]

That's their choice, it still doesn't make it something I want to find on a gaming site.

They were not thinking solely of you when they launched their website.

 

[AmazonQueen]

A forum like this is effectively a public place. Behaviour/humour/images that might be acceptable in a private male only environment may not be on here.