What happened to Europe?
- Thread starter Hygro
- Start date
Well, yes. Yet even if the US was filled with far better people (which it isn't), they only had 200 years, and no one would be rivalling the millenia we had here.
Overall, though, the US likely would never have a unified enough culture to present something as focused as in some euro civs, due to the US's continent-sized territory. Even in literature afaik most of the classical US writers lived in the small bit of New England.
There is also a mischievous comment by Oscar Wilde
Overall, though, the US likely would never have a unified enough culture to present something as focused as in some euro civs, due to the US's continent-sized territory. Even in literature afaik most of the classical US writers lived in the small bit of New England.
There is also a mischievous comment by Oscar Wilde
Spoiler :
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Americans elected Bush because Algerians migrated to Paris?
You reversed the casuality there. You said the Bush years were a consequence of Muslim immigration, but you're trying to say Muslim immigration is a result of the Bush years.
In reality both are wrong. The most Muslim countries in Western Europe, France and Belgium, have been receiving hordes of Arabs since the 1970's. Nothing to do with El Busho.
In reality both are wrong. The most Muslim countries in Western Europe, France and Belgium, have been receiving hordes of Arabs since the 1970's. Nothing to do with El Busho.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Rashiminos
Fool Prophet
Europe started flirting with Matriarchy (instead of Egalitarianism) when it wasn't prepared for it.
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Bush invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan have destabilized the Middle East. Resulting in mass migration into Europe. How much of this can be attributed to Bush wars is debatable. But long hatreds were always below the surface in the Middle east ready to explode into wars.
France colonalised parts of the Middle East and Africa and thus masses of Muslims are the result of it colonial past. Just like America with its large population of African Americans the results of its past slavery.
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Sweden and Poland are fascist ?
While there is no denying that the EU has changed blaming the baltic, eastern state and Balkan countries for problems is rather crazy. Considering these countries total 19% of EU population but only 9% of EU GDP.
The two most powerful countries in EU are still Germany-France bloc. If things become too Fascist for you then consider following British and have a referendum about exiting the EU. Which is Ironic considering the main issues behind the Brexit are immigration and economy. With EU countries resisting Germany immigration distribution plan and German style economic management.
Of course the Bush wars didn't help, but at any rate in terms of creating refugees the interventions in Syria and Lybia seem to have been just as bad, if not worse.
Anyway, ultimately it's up to the European countries to decide who they let in or not. It's their political choice and they have to own up to it. Sweden had an ultra-liberal asylum policy and very generous benefits to asylum applicants, so they received an enormous amount of refugees (and people claiming to be refugees). It was their decision, just like it was their decision to radically reverse course once it became clear they were running into deep trouble.
I also don't buy the "immigrants are a result of the colonial past and there's nothing we can do about it" line. No, France has millions of Arabs because it went recruiting them in their home countries, then passed ultra-liberal family reunification laws that allowed even nephews to move to France (which they later changed), and because they keep a nationality law that was created by Napoleon and made sense at that time but not at all in the present. So they have an enormous amount of immigrants and descendants of immigrants due to deliberate policy choices made in the last 4 decades, not due to colonial history.
Note that Belgium never colonized Morocco or Turkey and yet has a gigantic number of immigrants from those countries. Family reunification is so easy in Belgium that immigrants who live in the Netherlands move there for a couple of months to establish residence, bring their entire family and then move back to the Netherlands. Again, due to deliberate policy choices made in the last 4 decades, not due to Bush or 19th Century colonialism.
So don't blame Bush or distant imperialists of the 19th Century. Choices were made, and quite recently.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Well, France governed the entirety of Algeria as part of metropolitan France until 1962, so "19th century" might be misleading in thise case. Likewise most former Empires and their former colonies, give or take a decade or so. (There are countries that were younger at the time of my birth as independent nations than I am today; hard to regard that as dusty and ancient history.)
So, yes, you're not wrong that the presence of immigrant populations in Western Europe is, to some extent, a result of deliberate policy and not an inevitable side-effect of nineteenth century empires. But those policies weren't formulated without regard to empires that were only just crumbling, and in some cases persisted into, the periods during which these policies were enacted. There's a reason that the United Kingdom has more Jamaicans and Bengalis than it does Turks and Indonesians, y'know?
So, yes, you're not wrong that the presence of immigrant populations in Western Europe is, to some extent, a result of deliberate policy and not an inevitable side-effect of nineteenth century empires. But those policies weren't formulated without regard to empires that were only just crumbling, and in some cases persisted into, the periods during which these policies were enacted. There's a reason that the United Kingdom has more Jamaicans and Bengalis than it does Turks and Indonesians, y'know?
The last time we had an empire including Pakistan, was with the diadochoi of Alexander, and we still take in loads of central asians. Fwiw central asians are a lot harder to incorporate, whereas we already have had (and continue to) integrated arabian populations, particularly from less religious loon countries, including Syria and Egypt, as well as Jordan.
I am not of the view that Syrians are hard to be part of western EU countries. The issue is that most of the former eastern-block countries which are in the EU since 2004 are quite literally racist societies. They do not want to accept even TOKEN populations of refugees. And in their case they seem to view all muslims as some sort of homogeneous blob.
I am not of the view that Syrians are hard to be part of western EU countries. The issue is that most of the former eastern-block countries which are in the EU since 2004 are quite literally racist societies. They do not want to accept even TOKEN populations of refugees. And in their case they seem to view all muslims as some sort of homogeneous blob.
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Greece you were one of the most tolerant of immigrants, but since 1995 Greece is now considered the Least tolerant of immigrants. And is one of the most racist of all EU countries.
Even racist Austria has more immigrants then Greece with 12% minorities
Poland I assume the target of your attack has 14% minorities
Hungary has 21.8% minorities
Bulgaria, the poorest of the EU countries has been spared from immigration.
Czech has 18.8% minorities would be considered close second to xenophobic
Too be fair though, other EU countries whom dont want Syrian refugees are going to fund the countries that host refugees.
Immigration to Greece
Migrants additionally make up 25% of wage and salary earners
Albanian migrants constitute some 55–60% or more of the immigrant population
In the mid-90s the Greek immigration policy relied mostly on massive deportation of mainly Albanian immigrants, hoping to discourage immigration to Greece
former Turkish Prime Minister, Turgut Özal. The latter characteristically stated that:[23][24]
We do not need to make war with Greece. We just need to send them a few millions illegal immigrants from Turkey and finish with them.
a very high number of unauthorized immigrant workers in Greece.[13] In 1992 the Ministry of Public Security indicated that of the 500,000 foreigners estimated to be in Greece, 280,000 of them were illegal
Much of the economic growth in Greece in the late 1990s and early 2000s has been through the underpaid work of illegal immigrants, constituting 29.4% of Greece's GDP
In 1989, Greeks were presented by the Eurobarometer as the people most tolerant of foreigners in all the EU
Since the influx of immigrants began in the early 1990s, the number of Greeks who felt that the number of immigrants living in Greece was "too many" skyrocketed, from 29% in 1991, to 45% in 1992, to 57% in 1993, and 69.2% in 1994.[6] Approximately 85-90% also believe that immigrants are responsible for increased levels of crime and unemployment.[6] Greece is now considered to be the most xenophobic country in the EU
Greeks hold very low opinions and stereotypical ideas about many groups of immigrants, particularly Albanians, Muslims, and Turks, due to historical preconditions
the majority of Greeks have formed fairly negative impressions of immigrants in general, they do have surprisingly positive opinions about immigrants they know personally.[6] Still, even with a population made up of 10% immigrants—possibly even more when one includes estimate on the number of undocumented migrants—Greeks still believe that their country is extremely homogeneous and have low regard for other cultures and religions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Greece
France did govern Algeria, and curiously mass migration from Algeria only started after France left (ironically De Gaulle wanted to leave Algeria precisely to avoid mass Algerian immigration to France. Kinda backfired). Naturally former colonial ties leave a certain bond that are related to immigration, most importantly the language bond. But this doesn't affect only the former colonial power. Note that Belgium has a huge community of francophone Arabs, which it never colonized, but a small Congolese community, which it did. One of France's biggest immigrant communities are the Turks, who again were never colonized by France.
So yes, the colonial empires created links that help explain some immigration patterns. But the extent of immigration was entirely determined by political choices made in the last decades.
You may add Estonia - 30% minorities.
One thing that commonly pops up in the LSE.
Lack of commercialization. EU citizens don't seem to commercialize stuff. EU science isn't turned into patents and money. The cute statistic I heard recently is that Samsung has more carbon nanotube patents than the UK.
It's one of those "oh, someone should do something" problems. How many EU citizens here have looked into the patent process? Ostensibly, there's a great benefit in being familiar with how it works and it would only take ~22 hrs to get a high level of (relative) expertise. We all know over a hundred people. It means that the odds of being able to offer advice are really high, especially over one's lifetime.
There's no doubt that EU R&D spending increases the global pie. But the EU isn't very good at capturing the benefit of that spending on a first order basis.
Lack of commercialization. EU citizens don't seem to commercialize stuff. EU science isn't turned into patents and money. The cute statistic I heard recently is that Samsung has more carbon nanotube patents than the UK.
It's one of those "oh, someone should do something" problems. How many EU citizens here have looked into the patent process? Ostensibly, there's a great benefit in being familiar with how it works and it would only take ~22 hrs to get a high level of (relative) expertise. We all know over a hundred people. It means that the odds of being able to offer advice are really high, especially over one's lifetime.
There's no doubt that EU R&D spending increases the global pie. But the EU isn't very good at capturing the benefit of that spending on a first order basis.
Well, South Korea is the country with the biggest proportional investment in R&D and outspends the UK by more than 50% in absolute numbers. A large share of that is either directly invested by Samsung or in public-private partnerships with Samsung. In total, the investment into R&D Samsung profits from rivals the investments into R&D made by the entire UK.
When you consider that, this statistic should not be as surprising as it seems at first glance.
MilitantSecular
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2016
- Messages
- 171
maye not but
Alan B West US writer, retired U.S. Army, politician.
Many of us would have much more sympathy for the refugees pouring into Europe if so many of them didnt behave like disappointed tourists.
Crime is skyrocketing in countries bringing in refugees, especially in Germany, which has welcomed in more than a million. Weve all heard of the increase in violent sexual attacks, and thats hardly the only kind of violence being brought in.
Remember when we thought terrorists slipping through the cracks was the only unintended consequence we had to worry about?
As FOX reports, some migrants responded violently simply to voice dissatisfaction with their meals this Ramadan.
A pair of North African refugees who on Tuesday set a German shelter on fire reportedly did so because they were angry the special Ramadan meals there werent up to snuff.
According to another source, their failure to receive a wake-up call was the source of their outrage. Regardless, their response clearly wasnt proportional to the crime.
Investigators told the BBC that the men who were not fasting at the shelter in Duesseldorf had complained their lunch portions were too small. The fire burned the facility to the ground, causing $11 million in damages.
We had to do it so that things would change, one of the two 26-year-old North African suspects told reporters. Police charged them with arson.
Refugees also fought over meal times. Some wanted food service only when it was dark, in accordance with Muslim law, while others wanted to eat during the day, prosecutor Ralf Herrenbrueck said. Muslims and Christians were living at the shelter. Police told Reuters many of the residents had given false names, birthdays or countries of origin when they entered the facility.
http://www.allenbwest.com/analytica...es-burn-down-shelter-the-reason-why-is-insane
Hard to understand the logic here. Could it be these refugees are trying to make Germany the new Middle East?
Refugees burn down asylum centre over breakfast because religion of peace
Link to video.
what?
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Europe is trying to acquire new cheap labor, gets mad when cheap labor wants to have the same dignity as native citizens.
