What if your boy wants to be a girl?

[ParkCungHee]

What exactly is the risk here? The child can later on decide that he/she no longer wants to change gender.

As anyone who is familiar with the Transgender community, it is not a simple matter that can be turned on and off like a light switch.

 

[Traitorfish]

At the age of 12 I had nothing but whims. If your child has a deeply held conviction that IS a sign of a disorder, because frankly, that sounds like the least fun kid ever.

Well, yeah, they were born with the wrong body. If that were me, I'd get pretty worked about it as well.

Yes, but in such a case we must weigh the likelihood that you will hold on to a conviction they had when they were 12 into adulthood.

True, which is why, as I said, a strict vetting process would be necessary. However, as you say, the lack of conviction which children usually hold about anything much of substance suggests to me that anyone able to arrive at such a definition and explicit statement of identity at that age really should be given a chance to establish their transness.

Also I would say that if a child had shown a strong orientation to the opposite gender from a young age up to 12 years old then it's more than just a whim. If it's something that just came up at the age of 12 with no previous signs then that's totally different.

Well, that's quite true, although it's complicated by the particular relationship between gender identity and gender expression- you do get some pretty butch trans women.

 

[NovaKart]

As anyone who is familiar with the Transgender community, it is not a simple matter that can be turned on and off like a light switch.

So what are you saying then? If a child's parents allow a boy to live as a girl then it makes it impossible for him to change his mind later?

Actually the article mentioned that young boys who have a strong interest in girl's things often turn out to be simply gay instead of transgender.

 

[Traitorfish]

So what are you saying then? If a child's parents allow a boy to live as a girl then it makes it impossible for him to change his mind later?

If they embark on any medical treatment, then, yes, it will have irreversible effects. Even before sex reassignment surgery is pursued (something which really should be left to adulthood) hormonal treatment during puberty has significant irreversible effects, particularly on bone structure.

 

[amadeus]

I read the first page and got tired of the "yay radical feminism, boo rural south" kind of thing they were doing. The boy's story is tragic and is probably related to some sort of hormonal imbalance or some kind of physiological thing that I don't know much about.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Well, yeah, they were born with the wrong body. If that were me, I'd get pretty worked about it as well.

I'd probably shrug and go play N64. Because that was what I did when I was 12. I'd also want to be something totally badass like a dragon, or a robot if I was changing my body around.

So what are you saying then? If a child's parents allow a boy to live as a girl then it makes it impossible for him to change his mind later?

In the 20th century "living as a girl" has no appreciable meaning.
I mean that if a child undergoes hormone therapy during puberty, that's irreversible.

As a more direct comparison Traitorfish, would you allow or enable a child of 12 to engage in exercises that are designed to stunt their growth, or are known to cause circulatory problems, if they had a desire to be a wrestler or kickboxer?

 

[Traitorfish]

I'd probably shrug and go play N64. Because that was what I did when I was 12. I'd also want to be something totally badass like a dragon, or a robot if I was changing my body around.

And that, I suppose, is the difference between trans folk and cis folk in this regard.

As a more direct comparison Traitorfish, would you allow or enable a child of 12 to engage in exercises that are designed to stunt their growth, or are known to cause circulatory problems, if they had a desire to be a wrestler or kickboxer?

Well, no, because neither of those things are innate identities. For trans people, after all, transition is not a mere ambition, but a need, something which they feel compelled towards at a fundamental level.

I read the first page and got tired of the "yay radical feminism, boo rural south" kind of thing they were doing.

Radical Feminists hate trans people. (Really, they can actually get pretty vile about it, more so than the run-of-the-mill transphobe because they invest a lot more in their gender essentialism.) You might want to take a bit more care with your terminology.

The boy's story is tragic and is probably related to some sort of hormonal imbalance or some kind of physiological thing that I don't know much about.

If you think that hormonal imbalances cause transsexualism, then, yes, you clearly do not know much about it.

 

[NovaKart]

What about the drugs meant to delay puberty. In that case couldn't they postpone hormone treatment to a later age?

 

[Quackers]

The real fascists are those who want me to pay for individuals to go through with this.

 

[Narz]

I wonder what the biological origins of such a thing are.

My daughter's definitely quite susceptible to girly things (most of which I find repulsive & disempowering), I hope she grows up to be a proper tomboy though.

 

[ParkCungHee]

And that, I suppose, is the difference between trans folk and cis folk in this regard.

No, I would say this is a difference between 12 years olds and 18 year olds and even 14 year olds.

Well, no, because neither of those things are innate identities. For trans people, after all, transition is not a mere ambition, but a need, something which they feel compelled towards at a fundamental level.

I think just about any serious kickboxer would agree that those terms apply to them.

 

[ParkCungHee]

What about the drugs meant to delay puberty. In that case couldn't they postpone hormone treatment to a later age?

Those don't exist.

 

[NovaKart]

Blockers are entirely reversible; should a child change his or her mind about becoming the other gender, a doctor can stop the drugs and normal puberty will begin. The Dutch clinic has given them to about 70 children since it started the treatment, in 2000; clinics in the United States and Canada have given them to dozens more. According to Dr. Peggy Cohen-Kettenis, the psychologist who heads the Dutch clinic, no case of a child stopping the blockers and changing course has yet been reported.

They seem to be distinct from cross-sex hormones.

 

[ParkCungHee]

They seem to be distinct from cross-sex hormones.

Huh...I stand corrected. A more reasonable solution.

 

[NovaKart]

According to the article in the Netherlands children undergo counseling before starting blockers. Perhaps they have some negative effects that haven't been discovered and maybe they can stunt growth but they're not as extreme as taking cross sex hormones.

 

[classical_hero]

Wait, are we seriously comparing trans people to axe murders?

So my transexual girlfiend is an axe murderer. That just does not quite work for a movie title.

 

[El_Machinae]

Upthread, I linked to an article about the puberty blocking treatment. Using the search thread function for 'Netherlands' should find it easily.

If you think that hormonal imbalances cause transsexualism, then, yes, you clearly do not know much about it.

You know, knowledge of transsexuality - especially the neurobiology thereof - is not common in society. For most people, outside of sex organs, the strongest known correlate of sexual behaviour are the sex hormones. This is twice now in the thread where your response is "lern moar". That doesn't help, because they don't know what you know, and they don't easily have a way of learning more on the topic. They're especially not going to learn more on the topic if they're merely condescended to.

You're proclaiming empathy for transsexuals, but can't shake up enough empathy for people who don't understand transsexuals?

Anyway, the neurobiology of transsexuality, like homosexuality, appears to develop well before puberty. Giving people sex hormones would affect them in similar ways as normal people, and would mostly have a whole-body effect. A gay guy isn't going to learn to like girls if he's given testosterone. He's just more likely to get pimples, to bald, and to build muscle

 

[Lone Wolf]

What if your boy wants to be a girl?

Nothing a good ol' whipping can't solve. Young people are too spoiled and have too much time on their hands, that's why they get strange ideas. Good old-fashioned tough love parenting can easily deal with such nonsense

 

[MRM]

I would not worry to much.

In that age, my sister wanted to be a boy. Why ? We were 3 boys and she was the only girl - I guess she just don't wanted to be an outsider within our family. So she acted more like a boy then many boys, played football with us and hated dolls. That boyish acting gone away when she grew older and become more mature.

IMO children at that age have completly different reasons for such wishes then the parents think of.

 

[useless]

Being transgendered and feeling like you are in the wrong body does not "go away".