I don't think we're actually in disagreement here.
What is a Nazi?
- Thread starter Hygro
- Start date
Zardnaar
Deity
Nope.
Senethro
Overlord
Yo, I know you're not a bad guy, but you should maybe qualify statements like this because bad guys use this sentence to say "Therefore it was ok" without wanting to take the mask off.
Zardnaar
Deity
Not ok but slavery was present everywhere including pre colonization NZ.
Slavery alone doesn't indicate fascism was the main point. Depends on how fair you want to go back.
EnglishEdward
Deity
In ancient times if a city was captured after a bitter war, being enslaved was often
the better alternative to being killed on the spot or ritually sacrificed to the gods.
the better alternative to being killed on the spot or ritually sacrificed to the gods.
Zardnaar
Deity
The PoW concept is reasonably new.
Senethro
Overlord
Jeez you guys! What is this reflexive defending-but-not-quite-defending of slavery going on? Why do you feel the need to slip these semi-adjacent factoids that you don't quite explain or contextualize?
Please say your full point!
Please say your full point!
Zardnaar
Deity
Someone claimed the CSA was a fascist state iirc. It wasn't. Slavery by itself isn't fascism or Nazism.
I'm not saying slavery is good glad it's mostly gone. It was very common though in the past.
That's all I'm saying nothing more nothing less. It existed in the Islamic world wasn't fascism. Rome not fascist. Greece not fascist etc.
EnglishEdward
Deity
OK, back to the topic:
I have been considering the requirements for being a Nazi:
(a) being German
(b) supporting Adolf Hitler *
(c) believing that might is right and pacifism is stupid
(d) following Nazi party line rather than traditional morality
(e) hating people of different ethnic backgrounds
(f) having a propensity to invade and annex other countries territories
(g) or failing that getting in a submarine and sinking their shipping or an aircraft and bombing then **
* this is difficult as he is dead, but I suppose worshipping him as a hero counts
** technology means this now includes remote controlled drones
I think one must score at least 4 out of 7 to be fairly called a Nazi.
Belatedly edited to correct the number of asterisks as spotted by @ amadeus !
I have been considering the requirements for being a Nazi:
(a) being German
(b) supporting Adolf Hitler *
(c) believing that might is right and pacifism is stupid
(d) following Nazi party line rather than traditional morality
(e) hating people of different ethnic backgrounds
(f) having a propensity to invade and annex other countries territories
(g) or failing that getting in a submarine and sinking their shipping or an aircraft and bombing then **
* this is difficult as he is dead, but I suppose worshipping him as a hero counts
** technology means this now includes remote controlled drones
I think one must score at least 4 out of 7 to be fairly called a Nazi.
Belatedly edited to correct the number of asterisks as spotted by @ amadeus !
Last edited:
amadeus
Apply directly to the forehead
Remote-Controlled Drone Hitlers?
Zardnaar
Deity
You're on the right path. I've been trying to think of another Nazi state and only one I can think of is Croatia 41-45.
Italy was Fascist and the other Axis powers more right wing authoritarian. Hard to say. Romania maybe Hungary after whatshisface was forced out?
EnglishEdward
Deity
I have applied my test to the proverbial Japan soldier during WW2.
(a) being German = NO
(b) supporting Adolf Hitler = Not technically, but was Emperor worship that different?
(c) believing that might is right and pacifism is stupid = YES
(d) following Nazi party line rather than traditional morality = Not technically Nazi party, but not very different
(e) hating people of different ethnic backgrounds = YES/NO?
(f) having a propensity to invade and annex other countries territories = YES
(g) or failing that getting in a submarine and sinking their shipping or an aircraft and bombing then = YES
The Japanese soldier just doing his duty wasn't a Nazi, but if his
motivation included hatred for other races, he comes pretty close.
(a) being German = NO
(b) supporting Adolf Hitler = Not technically, but was Emperor worship that different?
(c) believing that might is right and pacifism is stupid = YES
(d) following Nazi party line rather than traditional morality = Not technically Nazi party, but not very different
(e) hating people of different ethnic backgrounds = YES/NO?
(f) having a propensity to invade and annex other countries territories = YES
(g) or failing that getting in a submarine and sinking their shipping or an aircraft and bombing then = YES
The Japanese soldier just doing his duty wasn't a Nazi, but if his
motivation included hatred for other races, he comes pretty close.
I don't see how being German has anything to do with it. There are plenty of Nazis that are/were not German.
Zardnaar
Deity
I would consider Japan fascist. They lacked the anti semitism of Nazism and a few other things. Jews were somewhat safe in their territory.
They also wanted conquest vs genocide. Very low regard how they did that.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
- Joined
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Not doubting that, but (sadly) Nazis will forever be connected to Germany. And while other countries may have had a similar past at some point, none of that compares to what happened in Germany.
But many other countries had Nazis, sometimes in government, even if they were not in sole control of the government or were propped up by Germany.
Germany was the only country where a Nazi party gained control of the government largely by its own efforts but even there they were helped by the right-wing of traditional conservativism.
bernie14
Filter Manipulator
utter lack of compassion?
Neo-Nazis don't have to be German, but they often "cosplay" visual attributes of original Nazi party - symbols, gestures, motto.
Sometimes even name of the party is essentially copied, e.g. Social-National Party of Ukraine
Sometimes even name of the party is essentially copied, e.g. Social-National Party of Ukraine
When it comes to 'Nazi' specifically, I think that self-identification helps. It's also how I help discern a Christian from someone who believes Christian mythology.
It's too specific a term. It's too dependent on Hitler's Germany. It was too short of a time period to lay much precedent.
I also wonder if we're downplaying the conquest narrative. Bannon's Economic Nationalism seemed to be a defensive posture. Wanting to exit Afghanistan is an isolation, not an expansion. (Compared to "keeping the oil", which was a conquering narrative).
A society that feels under threat has to turtle, so they cannot all be fascist, even when it's preferring itself over others. But, counterpoint, a society might decide to purge their own weak members as part of the turtling process. That definitely seems to be part of fascism. Or maybe it isn't, it's just a realpolitik
It's too specific a term. It's too dependent on Hitler's Germany. It was too short of a time period to lay much precedent.
I also wonder if we're downplaying the conquest narrative. Bannon's Economic Nationalism seemed to be a defensive posture. Wanting to exit Afghanistan is an isolation, not an expansion. (Compared to "keeping the oil", which was a conquering narrative).
A society that feels under threat has to turtle, so they cannot all be fascist, even when it's preferring itself over others. But, counterpoint, a society might decide to purge their own weak members as part of the turtling process. That definitely seems to be part of fascism. Or maybe it isn't, it's just a realpolitik
