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What is capitalism ?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by carniflex, Oct 3, 2005.

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What is capitalism ?

  1. An economic system based on the freedom to buy and sell

    45.5%
  2. A social sytem based on the spoliation of the worker for the profit of the shareholder

    7.1%
  3. Both

    32.1%
  4. Other (please explain)

    8.0%
  5. Capitalism does not exist

    3.6%
  6. I dont know

    1.8%
  7. I dont care

    1.8%
  1. newfangle

    newfangle hates you.

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    God I can't stand cultural bromides crammed down our throats like that one.

    I work for the betterment of ME and no amount of stalinist re-education camps can change that. Anyone that wants a piece can go to hell.
     
  2. Communisto

    Communisto Condottiere

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    :rolleyes: i love how everyone jumps to "stalinist pigs!" if someone so much as brings the thought of actually caring for humanity instead of selling eachother around to the table of discussion
     
  3. newfangle

    newfangle hates you.

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    You erroneously assume that self-interest and 'caring' (funny when people use that word) for humanity are mutually exclusive.

    Why do communists...oops!...I mean anarchists always make such an assumption?
     
  4. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    "work or die" isn't freedom, and I bet you can perfectly see what's slavery-ish about it.
    The nice capitalist dream is only true IF you have doable alternatives. Which is FAR for being the case.
     
  5. Aphex_Twin

    Aphex_Twin Evergreen

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    Then what is it about labour that it cannot be a good (in the economic sense)?
     
  6. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    If you want to work for a guy because he offers better conditions then you or the democratic collectivity could offer, then how is that not freedom?

    If you prohibit people from doing that, then you have slaves.
     
  7. Irish Caesar

    Irish Caesar Yellow Jacket

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    Is working for yourself slavery?

    It's still presented as "work-or-die," just not for someone else.

    Just curious, but I stick to my original assertion.
     
  8. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    What I meant was "do this particular work or die". Thought the context made it obvious.

    When you've the choice of doing a particular work or dieing, it's pretty much equal to slavery to me.
     
  9. amadeus

    amadeus As seen on OT

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    Care to tell me what would happen if nobody worked then, Akka? We'd all be dead.
     
  10. newfangle

    newfangle hates you.

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    It seems a little childish to yearn for a world where everyone does what they love with no questions asked.

    Some people are better at some things than other people. Supply and demand are finite. Therefore the proposition that one day we could all do what we want is false.
     
  11. carniflex

    carniflex Stratêgos

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    If you want to form fascism because it offers better conditions then democracy could offer, would you say it is freedom ?

    Selling your freedom is certainly not freedom.

    By the way, subordination doesnt give you better conditions, it gives you exploitation.
     
  12. Aphex_Twin

    Aphex_Twin Evergreen

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    @carniflex
    If people can't sell their labour this would mean they don't own it themselves. Is that where you are getting at? Who does own it then?
     
  13. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    Completely stupid answer showing how hard you tried to twist its meaning.
    Good, exactly what can be expected from you :goodjob:
     
  14. amadeus

    amadeus As seen on OT

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    What else was there to take out of your statement, Akka? Would you care to enlighten me? I, a stupid American, am too slow to comprehend your complex and theories regarding economics.
     
  15. WillJ

    WillJ Coolness Connoisseur

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    Capitalism, as I see it, is option #1. I think that's a decent definition (it'd be perfect if it further said that what you buy is forever and completely "yours"); anything else that may result from it doesn't define the word.

    Carniflex, so you're saying everyone should be completely self-sufficient? No one should do any work for anyone else, because then we're all slaves? I should have to mow the grass myself, farm for my food myself, do my taxes for myself, give myself an education, and do everything else myself?

    What the ****?

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
     
  16. Gangor

    Gangor King

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    Rubbish. You are not compelled to work for any particular guy. You are perfectly free to set up your own business, should you so choose. Slavery is when you do not have this choice.

    That is no less "slavery" than working for a private company if you're not in the majority, and if you lack the choice to leave the collective then that is slavery.

    Well, that depends on what form of socialism, doesn't it? Just like different capitalist systems have different rules, different socialist systems have different rules. Take National Socialism, for example...
     
  17. Gangor

    Gangor King

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    My point was that by owning shares in the company you work for (as many people do), by your definition you are "exploiting" yourself.

    Possibly the most stupid suggestion I have ever heard. :lol:
     
  18. Dominus Romae

    Dominus Romae Warlord

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    Everyone that took the "Socialist" part of "National-Socialism" seriously was brutally executed.
     
  19. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    If you aren't free to sell your labour you aren't free at all. Working for someone is exchange for mutually agreed payment certainly isn't slavery. In fact many people have excellent lifes while working for someone else. You can even be rich that way.
     
  20. Gangor

    Gangor King

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    How do you explain Hitler's election, then? Quite a lot of people had to take the "Socialist" part of "National Socialism" seriously. And comparitively few of them were executed.
     

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