What is Supremacy - Dev Blog

[Lord Shadow]

They've said that the launch of the starships happens approximately 2250 AD, but it's not clear when the game actually starts, as it would take a long time for the (presumably sub-light) colony ships to reach the destination star. The in-game calendar will probably start at year 1 when the colony is founded. That would avoid having to nail down any of the exact dates of the previous happenings on Earth, or the issue of how long the starships were in flight (which would probably be on the order of hundreds of years).

Hmm. That's an interesting thing to ponder. So far we don't know whether humanity has developed any kind of FTL travel method. They might not even clarify that, but I suppose flight times will have to be moderately reasonable.

One important detail to consider is that both the Purity and Supremacy victories involve opening a kind of warpgate back to Earth. Given the state of the homeworld by the time the colony ships launch, that puts an implicit cap on flight time and the duration of the game, since otherwise there would be little left to save by the time the gates are up. This is pure speculation, but between launch and endgame, I don't think it could be much longer than a thousand years. More than that and you end up returning to meet sparse pockets of post-apocalyptic medieval survivors, completely estranged from advanced civilization, or nobody at all.

I mean, the whole point of the colonization effort is to leave Earth because it can't sustain humanity for much longer. At the same time, it could be interpreted that a massive enough exodus could've left behind enough people on the homeworld to maintain technology level without straining the planet any further. Earth could harbour this smaller population for hundreds of years without many compromises. At least until the super-advanced once-colonists returned to subject it to their purposes.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Considering that you start with a leader that you pick on Earth, the flight time is very short, or humanity has figured out how to induce a hibernation state that lasts hundreds or thousands of years.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Hmm. That's an interesting thing to ponder. So far we don't know whether humanity has developed any kind of FTL travel method. They might not even clarify that, but I suppose flight times will have to be moderately reasonable.

One important detail to consider is that both the Purity and Supremacy victories involve opening a kind of warpgate back to Earth. Given the state of the homeworld by the time the colony ships launch, that puts an implicit cap on flight time and the duration of the game, since otherwise there would be little left to save by the time the gates are up. This is pure speculation, but between launch and endgame, I don't think it could be much longer than a thousand years. More than that and you end up returning to meet sparse pockets of post-apocalyptic medieval survivors, completely estranged from advanced civilization, or nobody at all.

I mean, the whole point of the colonization effort is to leave Earth because it can't sustain humanity for much longer. At the same time, it could be interpreted that a massive enough exodus could've left behind enough people on the homeworld to maintain technology level without straining the planet any further. Earth could harbour this smaller population for hundreds of years without many compromises. At least until the super-advanced once-colonists returned to subject it to their purposes.

I think the idea is that humanity can Sustain itself, but it can't Advance any more.
(All the people are put to work maintaining rather than researching/building new

However I think it is in the order of a few thousand years...more than a few hundred, but less than 10,000.

I also REALLY hope they don't go with 'your leader as a person stays alive the whole game'.
That was one of the stupid things in SMAC that I hope they don't borrow. (Especially since they also borrowed the stupid energy=currency from SMAC)
They can use the same graphic... but don't make a stupid backstory with immortality just to justify some art assets.

 

[Lord Shadow]

Considering that you start with a leader that you pick on Earth, the flight time is very short, or humanity has figured out how to induce a hibernation state that lasts hundreds or thousands of years.

Cryogenics. But to be honest, I wouldn't use leaders as reference of anything.

Remember that in pretty much all Civs they routinely live for over 6000 years in their prime without explanation.

 

[Matthew.]

Yep!

It would actually be MORE surprising if the leaders did NOT survive hundreds of years.

 

[AriochIV]

I don't think humanity will have FTL at the start of the game, or that would make going back and forth to Earth too easy, contact would never have been lost, and there would be no need for the warpgate.

One important detail to consider is that both the Purity and Supremacy victories involve opening a kind of warpgate back to Earth. Given the state of the homeworld by the time the colony ships launch, that puts an implicit cap on flight time and the duration of the game, since otherwise there would be little left to save by the time the gates are up. This is pure speculation, but between launch and endgame, I don't think it could be much longer than a thousand years.

The flipside of that coin is that Supremacy will be sending troops through a warpgate to try to conquer Earth humans who are several hundred to a thousand years ahead of them in technology. The concept of "Earth is dying" is always a little weak; we have the technology to terraform a hostile alien world, but not to fix a little ecological damage on our native world?

I suspect they will deal with this issue by completely ignoring it. As was mentioned, that's the same way they deal with the issue of immortal leaders.

 

[GeoModder]

The flipside of that coin is that Supremacy will be sending troops through a warpgate to try to conquer Earth humans who are several hundred to a thousand years ahead of them in technology. The concept of "Earth is dying" is always a little weak; we have the technology to terraform a hostile alien world, but not to fix a little ecological damage on our native world?

Who says Earth kept advancing after the expeditions left? A technological collapse of Earths civilizations is a possibility, and the Suprematists might only find backward or helpless (to their military power) groups of humans on Earth.

The expeditions sent out didn't really have the capability to terraform said hostile alien world at arrival. They first had to expand before they could think of the next phase.

And for all we know it could be the resources needed to try support Earth's population -and infrastructure that kept them from fixing this 'little ecological damage'.

 

[sendos]

One thing about supremacy that still irks me is this: How do such societies reproduce in their later stages? By creating sophisticated sentient AI? A permanent organic human underclass (think of the Spartan social hierarchy, where helots are normal humans/reproductive slaves, perioikoi are also normal humans but have basic access to advanced technology and the native Spartans are all cyborgs)? Latter seems more likely to me.

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

I get that this outlet is meant to excite us for Supremacy, so it would be focusing on the positives, but I hope above all else, for the game entirely, that they make sure to define in the weaknesses of Supremacy so that the choice between Purity, Harmony, and this is actually a choice (strategically speaking).

It is WAY too easy to get enamored with making the sleek cyborgs the best one of all.

It would be a disaster if the affinities are not balanced, moreso than any other game component.

 

[bouncymischa]

How do such societies reproduce in their later stages?

Test tube babies? With enough technology, do you need an organic host for the baby to gestate in?

 

[Lord Shadow]

How do such societies reproduce in their later stages? By creating sophisticated sentient AI?

Copy & paste.



Once the population can't physically reproduce, I guess there's methods like cloning existing entities, or procedurally generated babies (would they even be called babies? Alphas? Betas? ). There's also the possibility of advanced cybersex in a Matrix-like environment, which combines the code of two digital entities to create a new one. But who knows if Supremacists will actually bother simulating sex at that stage. Maybe they'll just skip to the merging.

 

[Freedom Geek]

I also REALLY hope they don't go with 'your leader as a person stays alive the whole game'.
That was one of the stupid things in SMAC that I hope they don't borrow. (Especially since they also borrowed the stupid energy=currency from SMAC)
They can use the same graphic... but don't make a stupid backstory with immortality just to justify some art assets.

I hope they do have your leader alive the whole game and do use life extension/immortality treatments to justify it.

More sci-fi needs radical life extension. StarTrek has goddamn replicators but people still die at 125, What The Hell.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I hope they do have your leader alive the whole game and do use life extension/immortality treatments to justify it.

More sci-fi needs radical life extension. StarTrek has goddamn replicators but people still die at 125, What The Hell.

Its not Just your leader being Alive for the whole game.

The US has had 40+ presidents... Only 1 (or 2) died of old age in office. (6? Are alive now)

Also, near immortality is a significant social change, that seems to violate the idea of small science steps at first...only slowly getting more radically science fiction.

I could see agelessness in the first 40-100 turns not turn 0
(Unless agelessness was the Great Mistake..which would be just as stupid)

 

[AriochIV]

Who says Earth kept advancing after the expeditions left?

Who says they didn't? I'm talking about the possibility.

 

[Mustakrakish]

On Topic: I also believe they definitely need a 5th stage between 2 and 3. I'm all for sifnificant upgrates "that feel more rewarding", but right now it's way too radical of a change.

I'm also don't want years in the game, as it just ruins the immersion for me. In fact I'd prefer Civ 5 without years too. Hmm.. perhaps I'll ask for a mod...

The flipside of that coin is that Supremacy will be sending troops through a warpgate to try to conquer Earth humans who are several hundred to a thousand years ahead of them in technology. The concept of "Earth is dying" is always a little weak; we have the technology to terraform a hostile alien world, but not to fix a little ecological damage on our native world?

I suspect they will deal with this issue by completely ignoring it. As was mentioned, that's the same way they deal with the issue of immortal leaders.

I was thinking about that. Or as the supremacist are just building the gate (late game), suddenly a new much much bigger, more advanced, more official Earth faction arrives via FTL.

More and more I start to think that the reason they "leave it to the players imagination", is because they can't find a solid explanation / backstory...

Who says Earth kept advancing after the expeditions left? A technological collapse of Earths civilizations is a possibility, and the Suprematists might only find backward or helpless (to their military power) groups of humans on Earth.

We're talking about possibilities and as for now, it does sound just as plausible.

One thing about supremacy that still irks me is this: How do such societies reproduce in their later stages?

Copy & paste.

Get that freakiness off my lawn! Purity all the way.

 

[reddishrecue]

Be is supposed to leave earthly matters behind doesn't it... that's why I it is beyond earth. .

 

[sendos]

Test tube babies? With enough technology, do you need an organic host for the baby to gestate in?

Copy & paste.



Once the population can't physically reproduce, I guess there's methods like cloning existing entities, or procedurally generated babies (would they even be called babies? Alphas? Betas? ). There's also the possibility of advanced cybersex in a Matrix-like environment, which combines the code of two digital entities to create a new one. But who knows if Supremacists will actually bother simulating sex at that stage. Maybe they'll just skip to the merging.

I guess they could work. Can't wait to see how the backstory explains their version of this matter.

 

[GeoModder]

Well, I think the possibility Earth kept advancing technologically is quite remote. Otherwise it should be an Earth-based warpgate connecting to the colony world while the new arrivals there were still busy cataloguing their surroundings.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I am disappointed that there are only 4 tiers.
In BNW, the tiers were
8 warrior
6 archer
5 catapult
7 horseman
5 spear
5 trireme
4 galleas

3 fighters
3 bombers
2 paradrop
2 anti air

Given that, I would have really hoped for at least 6 levels for basics like
Soldier, cavalry, naval
And for art purposes
Normal
Normal improved
Transition
Transition improved
Full Affinity
Full Affinity improved

That's not correct. In BNW there are upgrades between unit classes, so we have 3 melee fighters, 5 gunpowder fighters, etc. Actually the only unit classes which have more than 4 units (5) are siege and gunpowder. and gunpowder didn't have fifth unit in vanilla.

Also remember, Civilization tech tree is linear, while CBE has a tech web. So, instead of unit types which obsolete and upgrade to another, we'll see unit classes which coexist on different branches.

 

[Freedom Geek]

Its not Just your leader being Alive for the whole game.

The US has had 40+ presidents... Only 1 (or 2) died of old age in office. (6? Are alive now)

That's a valid point. But then very few of these sorts of games have any real changes when you choose democracy instead of autocracy as your political system.

Also, near immortality is a significant social change, that seems to violate the idea of small science steps at first...only slowly getting more radically science fiction.

I could see agelessness in the first 40-100 turns not turn 0

It's meant to be changes that are more scientifically close, I think. That doesn't necessarily mean they won't have huge societal impact. I mean I think we're getting scientifically close to some technologies that will have some huge societal impacts ourselves.

But more importantly they don't even need to write them as having agelessness at turn one, just life extension. These life extension treatments extend their life long enough for their life to be extended by better life extension treatments and so on until immortality is invented. It's a real concept known as the longevity escape velocity (or alternatively the actuarial escape velocity).
Of course this raises the question of how this meshes with Purity players that might not be pushing their research in that direction...

(Unless agelessness was the Great Mistake..which would be just as stupid)

Oh god that would be the worst way to handle it ever.