England ceased to exist as a state in 1707, along with Scotland. Ireland disappeared in 1801 and most of it reappeared in 1927. If you mean the United Kingdom, please say so.
What is the oldest current coutry?
- Thread starter SerriaFox
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England ceased to exist as a state in 1707, along with Scotland. Ireland disappeared in 1801 and most of it reappeared in 1927. If you mean the United Kingdom, please say so.
madviking
north american scum
Cuz they already had a Civil War more than a hundred years prior. And America was a colony, not really British enough to warrant calling it a 'Civil war'.
ya, but the thing that determines a country is culture. not fashion.
Depends on how much continuity you want to attribute to Thaksin. 1782 isn't an unreasonable answer.
How far back do you want to go? Sukhothai is popularly thought to be the first "true" independent Thai kingdom and was founded back in the 1200s. The Ayutthaya Kingdom was established back to 1351, though for most of its history it was just one of the many Thai/Tai kingdoms, some were its vassals, while others weren't. The current dynasty seized power in 1782, the Monthon Thesaphiban reform was only enacted in the early 20th century, and the current "Constitutional Monarchy" only goes back to 1932.
It's still ridiculous to say India's culture have been static for 5,000 years.
the oldest current country is my current country in Civ. It exists from the beginning for time, and it never even changed the ruler.
Anyway, the oldest current "country" is the Holy See (not Vatican), followed by Maltan Knights. If we meen independent entities, even if they aren't territorial.
If not, I think all countries went major transformations or foreign domination in XIX/XX century. So it all depends on interpretation: is there a continuation of moroccan independance under Muhammad V? Can we speak of it, while Morocco was a french protectorate anyway?
Anyway, the oldest current "country" is the Holy See (not Vatican), followed by Maltan Knights. If we meen independent entities, even if they aren't territorial.
If not, I think all countries went major transformations or foreign domination in XIX/XX century. So it all depends on interpretation: is there a continuation of moroccan independance under Muhammad V? Can we speak of it, while Morocco was a french protectorate anyway?
ParkCungHee
Deity
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Nor is 1945.
innonimatu
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If the acquisition and loss of colonies doesn't count, Portugal has been around with pretty much unchanged borders for some 760 years. There was that episode of moving the capital to Rio and creating a United Kingdom of Portugal and Brasil during the Napoleonic Wars, but it's not as if the french ever got real control over Portugal.
It may have the oldest stable borders in Europe, but I'm sure it's not the oldest country in the world, or even in Europe. Counting revolutions with change of government as the founding of a new country is an absurd condition. And I wouldn't consider micro-states as real countries.
France, despite its political fragmentation during the middle ages, should have a strong claim on being Europe's oldest "stable" (roughly stable geographical area, continued existence) country.
It may have the oldest stable borders in Europe, but I'm sure it's not the oldest country in the world, or even in Europe. Counting revolutions with change of government as the founding of a new country is an absurd condition. And I wouldn't consider micro-states as real countries.
France, despite its political fragmentation during the middle ages, should have a strong claim on being Europe's oldest "stable" (roughly stable geographical area, continued existence) country.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
If you're counting Elsass and Lothringen as "minor" acquisitions, I see no reason why not to say the same thing about England. England hasn't changed geographically a great deal since the Wessex unification.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Because a unified England only dates back to 927, while an independent France dates back to 843, so it wouldn't really matter either way?
LightSpectra
me autem minui
It wasn't France until the Captenians; before then, it was West Francia, which had a completely different geographical, social and political structure. It's sort of a coincidence that Capetian France eventually started to take the same geographical shape as West Francia did; the former is by no means a "continuation" of the latter.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Ah, I did not realise that. Clearly, I need to brush on my Early Medieval French history.
Also, would that logic imply that Scotland can legitimately trace itself to the Pictish kingdom of Alba in the 9th century? It held direct or indirect control over most of modern Scotland, only the Lowland regions of Strathclyde and Lothian remaining apart. (Granted, they're where everybody actually lives now...)
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Ah, I did not realise that. Clearly, I need to brush on my Early Medieval French history.
Yeah. Probably the most fascinating thing to me is that at the beginning of the millennium, the Germans had become a de jure federation but practically centralized empire under the Ottonians, whereas the Capetian kings of West Francia were nothing more than glorified counts. Yet, after a few civil wars, France became the model of absolute monarchy by the 18th century, whereas Germany was a geographical term consisting of over a thousand scattered states (most of them city-states), all under the Holy Roman Empire, which was largely ineffectual in wartime and mostly symbolic. I can hardly explain the chain of events that lead up to that.
I dunno. I don't particularly buy the logic of this anyway, since countries are more than abstract geographical shapes. The modern nation-state didn't really exist until the 17th century, so any answer that predates that (unless it actually retains the same constitution, which is arguable for San Marino) should be automatically disqualified in my opinion.
The Danish monarchy is over 1000 years old, making it the second oldest continual monarchy in the world still existing today, the oldest being the Imperial House of Japan. The first monarch the monarchy can be traced back to is Gorm the Old (d. 958).
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