What is the US up to with regard to Iran?

[Samson]

I miss some factual info on size ships, cargo, flag, company.

You and everyone else it appears. From the Beeb:
The Panama-listed Kokuka Courageous and the Marshall Islands-flagged Front Altair were both sailing south-eastwards through international waters, after passing through the Strait of Hormuz, when they were rocked by explosions.
The Front Altair was carrying 75,000 tonnes of naptha from the United Arab Emirates to Taiwan. The Kokuka Courageous was reportedly carrying about 25,000 tonnes of methanol from Saudi Arabia to Singapore.

Taiwan's state oil refiner CPC Corp, which had chartered the [Front Altair], told Reuters news agency that it was "suspected of being hit by a torpedo" at about 04:00 GMT.

Yutaka Katada, the president of Japanese company Kokuka Sangyo which owns the vessel, said it was hit twice before the crew abandoned ship.
After the US military alleged that Iranian limpet mines were responsible, Mr Katada on Monday said sailors saw "flying objects" before the attack, according to the Associated Press - apparently contradicting the US narrative.
He had also earlier spoken of being hit by a "shell", rather than a mine.
"We have had an initial report that our ship... was hit by a shell. After that, our crew saw that other ships came under fire and moved around to avoid this," Mr Katada told reporters. "Three hours later it was hit again."
Iran's state news agency, Irna, said the first incident occurred on the Front Altair at 04:20 GMT, when it was 25 nautical miles (46km) off the Iranian port of Jask. At 05:20, the Kokuka Courageous caught fire about 28 miles off Jask, it added.
Irna cited an informed source as saying that an Iranian naval rescue unit from Hormozgan province had rescued 44 crew members from the two tankers, and transferred them all to Jask.

The US Navy's Fifth Fleet, which is based in Bahrain, said its forces in the region received two separate distress calls at 03:12 GMT and 04:00 GMT, and that USS Bainbridge, a guided missile destroyer, "rendered assistance".
A US defence official told CNN the USS Bainbridge had been nearby when the incidents happened, and that it took on board 21 crew members rescued by a tug boat from the Kokuka Courageous.
Another official told CBS News the US believed it would be able to recover enough debris "to come up with solid evidence for tracing them back to their source".

To back up its version of events, the US military released a video which it says shows Iran's Revolutionary Guard removing an unexploded limpet mine from one of the ships – hours after the initial detonations.

 

[r16]

one Leftist Media channel was agog with news that 6 ships were attacked and one [British] had sunk . The claim is for Altair , which didn't but Kokuka reports other ships "engaged" hours before she was attacked , so will we ever see a claim a gun battle went rather wrong for one of the sides ? Come on , the whole rationale for Western warships is to protect oil tankers and they let pirates run amok ?

 

[Socrates99]

I saw Gulf of Tonkin was trending on Twitter. Nice to see we aren't falling for this bullfeathers anymore.

one Leftist Media channel was agog with news that 6 ships were attacked and one [British] had sunk . The claim is for Altair , which didn't but Kokuka reports other ships "engaged" hours before she was attacked , so will we ever see a claim a gun battle went rather wrong for one of the sides ? Come on , the whole rationale for Western warships is to protect oil tankers and they let pirates run amok ?

Its not leftist bro, its corporate media. Actual leftists have zero interest in another BS war.

 

[Dekker]

It is almost funny how clear the US is jumping at the chance to blast Iran. I would love to hear anyone buying the story we are pushing explain why Iran is provoking such needless and pointless acts of sabotage???? Too bad as a whole country we will let ourselves be fooled into the nonsense, we can't go a presidency without bombing the hell out of the middle East.

 

[Hrothbern]

It is almost funny how clear the US is jumping at the chance to blast Iran. I would love to hear anyone buying the story we are pushing explain why Iran is provoking such needless and pointless acts of sabotage???? Too bad as a whole country we will let ourselves be fooled into the nonsense, we can't go a presidency without bombing the hell out of the middle East.

Trump should hold his horses for another week or so.
When Boris Johnson is chosen as PM it will be easier to get the UK on board for further steps.
And perhaps better before September, because Netanyahu will be still PM until then.

 

[Ironsided]

No need to wait. The UK foreign office has issued a statement that it is “almost certain” it’s Iran attacked the two tankers. Nothing new or unexpectedly clever there.

 

[Hrothbern]

But I want Boris to be nailed on it... not May
Hunt is just too eager to prove he is a worthy future cabinet member of Boris

 

[innonimatu]

With so many false flags going all the way back to the gulf of Tonkin it's almost the default to just assume false flag these days.

I remember when Trump was first elected and they pointed out his many lies in the first few months one commentator, forget who, said it was bad because people wouldn't believe him when it was important that they should. Maybe it's a good thing hes so full of ****. Now we have a nice healthy skepticism of everything his admin says.

It's both good and kind of disappointing. One no longer needs to come here to argue for caution in attribution!

This was a rather weird event because there were no obvious winners from it on the Iran-US conflict. Both sides need to deescalate for internal political reasons and this did not help. I wonder if it was related to the vote on weapons exports and, say, a privately contracted job on behalf of some local rulers?

 

[EnglishEdward]

I am thoroughly confused about this.

There was an article on the BBC web site yesterday about the USA claiming that the Iranian
navy was caught red handed on video removing an unexploded mine from a tanker.

Why would they do that? To fix the fuse and re-attach it, on receipt of payment; or
is the Iranian navy, knowing it wll be sunk in a war, at odds with the Republican Guard?

 

[mitsho]

It is almost funny how clear the US is jumping at the chance to blast Iran. I would love to hear anyone buying the story we are pushing explain why Iran is provoking such needless and pointless acts of sabotage???? Too bad as a whole country we will let ourselves be fooled into the nonsense, we can't go a presidency without bombing the hell out of the middle East.

From what I read, the reasoning would be for Iran to show that they can shut down the strait of Hormuz. „If you don‘t let us export our oil, we won‘t let your allies from the Arabian Peninsula export theirs either“. And that‘s a majority of global oil shipping..

In any case, it‘s a needless escalation. From all sides....

 

[uppi]

Why would they do that? To fix the fuse and re-attach it, on receipt of payment; or
is the Iranian navy, knowing it wll be sunk in a war, at odds with the Republican Guard?

Ostensibly, they would remove the mine so that any investigation team couldn't recover it and deduce that it is an Iranian mine.

 

[Hrothbern]

From what I read, the reasoning would be for Iran to show that they can shut down the strait of Hormuz. „If you don‘t let us export our oil, we won‘t let your allies from the Arabian Peninsula export theirs either“. And that‘s a majority of global oil shipping..

In any case, it‘s a needless escalation. From all sides....

yes... needless

Any small well resourced and determined group is able to temporarily stop and/or greatly sabotage and damage oil & gas exploitation, land logistics and shipping in this area of the world.
Naval wars will not change that.

And when the US (Saudi Arabia, Israel) and Russia (China) are playing their poker game, with many other stakeholders (like the EU, Japan, India) in the background... why in the escalated current newsmedia fashion, and risky fashion ?

weapons exports

The UK exports weapons at a value of 3 Billion Pounds per year to the Middle East, most of that Saudi Arabia.
The amount of real estate property in the UK (mostly London) owned by Saudi Arabia and Qatar is staggering.
But that is only the tip of the money iceberg for the UK. The amount of money laundering, etc through London and mostly UK dot-rock-islands territories of all major players of this conflict much much bigger.

Ostensibly, they would remove the mine so that any investigation team couldn't recover it and deduce that it is an Iranian mine.

My first thought as well.
And can you really draw conclusions from that info ?
Everybody and his dog can get access to these mines.
So did they do it to remove their own stuff, or to remove being framed by someone else ?

That's the sillyness of all this patchy juicy newsmedia attention.
When that MH-17 thread (2014) became awake again (because of that 93 year old Malaysian PM) I did read it for the first time (I was not here on the forum in 2014).
In the first days, or even the first hours (!), a multitude of speculations got in the newsmedia.
Most of them turned out to be nonsense. But the ever build up new waves of speculations overwhelmed that.

What do we here as outsiders really know ?

 

[uppi]

What do we here as outsiders really know ?

Nothing beyond that there were some explosions on ships.

There are so many interested parties, so much potential for false-flag operations (and false-false-flag operations?) that any speculation seems futile.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

speculation is never futile, speculation is fun!

 

[Kyriakos]

At least US/UK and others are still friends with problematic democracy Saudi Arabia.

I think it is pretty safe to assume that the actual reason US (and a couple other countries) are so against Iran is because of Israel. Actually US-Iran relations used to be very good in the past (before Israel state materialized), and there were many american scientific missions to that country. Now it is the Devil, of course, despite not having went to war or done much in ages, unlike a number of good US allies in the region.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Ostensibly, they would remove the mine so that any investigation team couldn't recover it and deduce that it is an Iranian mine.

That seems as good an explanation as any.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I have a very hard time believing US intelligence on this issue given both their history in the lead up to Iraq II: Sunni Bugaloo and this administration's incompetence in general. And the thing is that if Iran is going around bombing tankers, that's a legitimate problem that needs to be dealt with quickly and judiciously but I can't trust my own country to do right in foreign affairs anymore.

 

[Ajidica]

No need to wait. The UK foreign office has issued a statement that it is “almost certain” it’s Iran attacked the two tankers. Nothing new or unexpectedly clever there.

The British Foreign Office has been particularly pathetic the last few years in toadying up to the US. I'm waiting to hear what the French and Germans say.

Ostensibly, they would remove the mine so that any investigation team couldn't recover it and deduce that it is an Iranian mine.

Once thing I was wondering about is why the mine appeared to be mounted so far above the waterline. Aren't mines supposed to be attached below the waterline? I suppose the ship could have been listing heavily but in the picture the US released the ship seemed to be pretty level.

 

[red_elk]

The purpose of removing the mine depends on who is doing it.
If it was a US team removing the mine, it would be done for investigation and safety purposes.
When the Iranians do the same, they are caught red handed trying to destroy evidences. It's simple.

 

[uppi]

Aren't mines supposed to be attached below the waterline?

Yes, if you want to sink the ship. But if you don't actually want to sink the ship and only want to stir up some trouble without incurring too much damage (and potential oil spills) you should attach the mines above the waterline.

It is also easier to attach them above the waterline, because you don't need divers. And incidentally, divers are harder to film during the supposed cover-up operation.