What makes someone a Christan?

[El_Machinae]

Does that identify the people in question as "Christians"?

...just being nitpicky.

In all honesty, that's the metric I use as well, to even be considered maybe an actual Christian. But even great miracles might not be enough (as Classical Hero showed us).

In the Bible, there's magic. Christianity is associated with magic. It's a fair metric.

 

[warpus]

If they follow the Golden Rule, yeah. Much moreso than the self proclaimed Christian who doesn't.
And you could fill in the blank with just about anyone and I'd say the same thing, an atheist is a Christian if they follow the Golden Rule. A pagan is a Christian if they follow the Golden Rule...

Well, if that's not the most ridiculous position in this thread, then I don't know what is

Please, consider what you're saying here (Namely, that all good people in the world are Christian, no matter what religion they "claim" to be a part of)

 

[Irish Caesar]

but if a person says he's a christian and drinks poison without harm, plays with poisonous snakes, cures sick people with the touch of their hands, speaks authentic christian gibberish, and manages to cast out a devil I'll take his word for it(though I probably won't understand what he's saying).

I'd take his word for it, too.

(this hypothetical was designed to show that messianic judaism = christianity)

I wouldn't argue otherwise.

Since when is a degree in theology a requirement for having an opinion on religion?

It's not; all I meant was that I have no more authority than anyone else on the subject.

'Good works' aren't by any means necessary, as history has taught us. You can be a Christian and be a criminal, or work for the Inquisition. The faith in jesus being the son of god bit however is I think compulsory to be a Christian. I'm interested though: tell me, who believes he is the son of god but is not a Christian (as you have said)?

The demons of Hell you mentioned in your post.

Exactly, that's why I currently think believing Jesus is the son of god is a compulsory prerequisite for being a Christian, and that good works shouldn't come into it.

Good works have to enter into it. Without them, you aren't following what Jesus had to say. And if you really believe, I don't see why you wouldn't follow.

 

[Civfan333]

I think as long as you accept Jesus rose from the dead and died to save us from our sins...........I don't know what else.....

 

[Munch]

I'm interested though: tell me, who believes he is the son of god but is not a Christian (as you have said)?

The demons of Hell you mentioned in your post.

I did indeed mention the demons of hell, however their existence is up for debate. Is there any faction that we can agree both exists and believes Jesus is/was the son of god but is not Christian?

Good works have to enter into it. Without them, you aren't following what Jesus had to say. And if you really believe, I don't see why you wouldn't follow.

I don't see either. That is why I find it hard to reconcile the less than virtuous acts of large numbers of Christians throughout history with the supposed Jesus' teachings. The "Lord's Resistance Army" has already been mentioned in this thread, along with how 'devout' they are (they aim to subject their particular region of northern Uganda - at least - to the rule of the ten commandments) and simultaneously how brutal they are, in particular with their own children; they would strenuously deny that they were 'not Christian because of their acts'. Similar things can be said of the state- and church-backed Hutu militias in Rwanda.

Don't forget the church's support of fascist governments from pre-WWII (perhaps - initially at least - because the godless commies were a worse prospect for the domination of Europe) until long after it, including the Vatican aiding in the safe passage of Nazis out of Europe to sympathetic fascist locations in South America. Similarly you have the Dutch Reformed Church's preachings that black people and white people were biblically forbidden to coexist as equals, leading to a psuedo-Calvinism evident in the apartheid system in South Africa. Then there is the Greek Orthodox Church baptising the '67 military junta.

All this is only a part of the recent history of some who would regard themselves as indisputably Christian, from a century where arguably the Church has been at or near a minimum in its influence in the world. You may believe that acting in contradiction to the teachings of Jesus is un-Christian, but those who act in such a way would aggressively defend their own interpretation of the teachings of Jesus, and would certainly not accept your assertion that they are not Christians.

 

[Nylan]

I think you need to at least strive to do what Christ teaches. Success/failure isn't a fair measure of judgment, but that at least explains the whole "Satan is Christian" thing.

However, all the semantics in this thread are getting very far away from the actual question, as embedded in language as it already is.

 

[Irish Caesar]

I did indeed mention the demons of hell, however their existence is up for debate. Is there any faction that we can agree both exists and believes Jesus is/was the son of god but is not Christian?

I don't know of any off the top of my head, and other than demons, I wouldn't feel strongly enough to state that someone is not Christian.

All this is only a part of the recent history of some who would regard themselves as indisputably Christian, from a century where arguably the Church has been at or near a minimum in its influence in the world. You may believe that acting in contradiction to the teachings of Jesus is un-Christian, but those who act in such a way would aggressively defend their own interpretation of the teachings of Jesus, and would certainly not accept your assertion that they are not Christians.

And that's why we can't really agree on who is and who is not Christian; only one person can make that judgment.

I can only say that I do not identify with those who justify their violent acts in the name of Christ, much as I expect those Muslims who claim that theirs is a peaceful religion to distance themselves from those who justify their violent acts in the name of Islam.

 

[mitsho]

Ha someone already brought up Pierre Bourdieu? (don't bother to read the whole thread)

Someone is a Christian as long as he or she is recognized by enough persons (or other Christian) as a Christian.

We as a society of humans define certain signs/symbols and habits as Christian, and if you follow enough of them and you are allowed to follow them by your fellow citizens, you are a Christian.

It has nothing to do with personal belief. I could do the same equation as well with for example football players. Of course the hard thing to do now is to see what are these habits and signs/symbols. But that seems to be highly variable depending on where and in which companionship you are.

 

[Berzerker]

Well, if that's not the most ridiculous position in this thread, then I don't know what is

Please, consider what you're saying here (Namely, that all good people in the world are Christian, no matter what religion they "claim" to be a part of)

I've already explained this to you twice now, deeds are what matters. If you follow the Golden Rule, you are a Christian even if you dont call yerself one. And if you call yerself a Christian and run around hurting people, you aint a Christian. Jesus defines Christianity, not us and not our words...

Was Jesus great grandparents Christians? Huh, according to you, no... They are excluded by you from Jesus' salvation. Right?

Jesus H Christ

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Jesus doesn't define Christianity; he doesn't even use the word.

 

[Berzerker]

There's basically two answers to this question: practice and theory. Personally I prefer being a good person over adhering to Christian rituals and doctrines.

See, Warpus? It aint complicated

 

[Berzerker]

Jesus doesn't define Christianity; he doesn't even use the word.

Christians are followers of his teachings, his teachings define Christianity.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Jesus doesn't define Christianity; he doesn't even use the word.

That's because to him it would be Meanity. But I have to disagree. If Christianity isn't defined by Jesus and his actions, what does define it?

I can't believe this thread has gone for for 10 pages...

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Christians are followers of his teachings, his teachings define Christianity.

He referred to those who follow his teachings and tried to live up to his examples as "disciples" and the like; there is no reason to use another word ("Christian") to mean the same thing and then leave another group (anyone who believes in his doctrines) undefined. That just makes it far more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[Berzerker]

He referred to those who follow his teachings and tried to live up to his examples as "disciples" and the like; there is no reason to use another word ("Christian") to mean the same thing and then leave another group (anyone who believes in his doctrines) undefined. That just makes it far more complicated than it needs to be.

Oh, well, thanks for uncomplicating it But disciples were a select group of "Christians", not every Christian back then was a disciple, ie 12 disciples... Paul was not a disciple, but he became a Christian. The OP asked what makes a Christian, not a disciple...

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I think the 12 were "apostles" specifically.

 

[Berzerker]

Yeah, thats right, I think. But not everyone was a disciple, that was a select group of Christians charged with the task of spreading the message.

 

[Berzerker]

actually they're one in the same

wiki

In Christianity, an apostle (Ancient Greek: ἀπόστολος apostolos, "someone sent out", e.g. with a message) is one sent by Jesus. The term applies especially to one of "the Twelve," Jesus' inner circle of disciples (students). They were, according to the Acts of the Apostles and Christian tradition, disciples whom Jesus of Nazareth had chosen, named, and trained in order to send them on a specific mission: the establishment of the Christian Church by evangelism and the spreading of the "good news", after being sent the Holy Spirit as "helper" (paraclete) in this task at Pentecost.[1][citation needed]

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

it says there that "apostles" was the inner circle of disciples. But the point still stands: Jesus spoke of his followers, he never spoke of Christians.

 

[Formaldehyde]

From m-w.com:

1: one who accepts and assists in spreading the doctrines of another: as a: one of the twelve in the inner circle of Christ's followers according to the Gospel accounts b: a convinced adherent of a school or individual
2capitalized : a member of the Disciples of Christ founded in the United States in 1809 that holds the Bible alone to be the rule of faith and practice, usually baptizes by immersion, and has a congregational polity