What makes someone a Christan?

[Irish Caesar]

I find it strange that no one has mentioned Jesus's two rules: the golden rule and loving God.

Loving God and loving others go hand in hand; you cannot love God without loving others, although I think if you love others but deny God... you just might not be a Christian.

If I pray to allah, believe in Muhammad as the prophet, but live my life according to what I interpret the Bible as meaning, and consider myself a Christian, does that make me a Christian?

I think this is the key. Is "god" in Arabic simply "allah"? We use the English words for "god" and "lord" as the names of the god we worship, under the belief that there is only one, God. If you believe in one god (God/the Lord/the Creator/Allah/etc.) and strive to follow his commands based on the Bible, that seems Christian to me... but if you follow the Bible, you probably recognize Jesus as being the Son as well, so your scenario seems a tad hypothetical to me.

Of course, since I've never studied theology in the first place, my qualifications are zero.

 

[Red Door]

FROM OTHER THREAD



If I pray to allah, believe in Muhammad as the prophet, but live my life according to what I interpret the Bible as meaning, and consider myself a Christian, does that make me a Christian?

You are, according to Theologian Karl Rahner, an "anonymous Christian."

 

[RalofTyr]

If you give me 10% of your weekly earnings every Sunday, you're Christian.

 

[holy king]

i'd make that 30%.

 

[Munch]

8+ pages and we don't have a consensus yet? Some may assert that Jesus was a great prophet but isn't it a unique characteristic of Christians that they believe he was the son of god? Perhaps I am naively excluding the demons of hell ...

 

[Berzerker]

A nice Muslim is a Christian? Really, you believe this?

If they follow the Golden Rule, yeah. Much moreso than the self proclaimed Christian who doesn't.
And you could fill in the blank with just about anyone and I'd say the same thing, an atheist is a Christian if they follow the Golden Rule. A pagan is a Christian if they follow the Golden Rule...

 

[Irish Caesar]

8+ pages and we don't have a consensus yet? Some may assert that Jesus was a great prophet but isn't it a unique characteristic of Christians that they believe he was the son of god? Perhaps I am naively excluding the demons of hell ...

Christians do believe this... but yeah, it doesn't mean that if you believe it, you're Christian.

I've seen "Faith and Good Works" used before as a nutshell description. It seems like a simple and accurate summary.

 

[Berzerker]

8+ pages and we don't have a consensus yet? Some may assert that Jesus was a great prophet but isn't it a unique characteristic of Christians that they believe he was the son of god? Perhaps I am naively excluding the demons of hell ...

Thats a pretty good one, but it doesn't really tell us much about the nature of being Christian. Satan may believe Jesus is the son of god too Oh, demons from hell. I thought you were referencing the pagan gods that became demons under monotheism. The ME is full of gods with sons, immaculate conceptions, etc...

 

[RalofTyr]

8+ pages and we don't have a consensus yet?...

Democracy? That's not very Christian of you.

 

[Smellincoffee]

From the position of a religious skeptic (and sometimes, cynic), I only consider Christians to be people who try to use the religious philosophy of the "New Testament" to make themselves better persons (while taking the claims made about bible-Jesus seriously). Everyone else is just part of a Christian culture. The term "Christian" has no real meaning for them outside of being part of their cultural identity.

 

[Shadylookin]

quite frankly you're all wrong

16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

a christian is someone who can play with snakes, drink poison, cure sick people by touching them, and remove devils from people all while shouting gibberish.

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

If they follow the Golden Rule, yeah. Much moreso than the self proclaimed Christian who doesn't.
And you could fill in the blank with just about anyone and I'd say the same thing, an atheist is a Christian if they follow the Golden Rule. A pagan is a Christian if they follow the Golden Rule...

And likewise, some nominal Christians are really just glorified....well, I don't want to say pagans because that would imply that pagans are necessarily bad but fill in whatever word works best for you.

 

[Dachs]

And likewise, some nominal Christians are really just glorified....well, I don't want to say pagans because that would imply that pagans are necessarily bad but fill in whatever word works best for you.

Explain plz.

 

[Irish Caesar]

quite frankly you're all wrong

a christian is someone who can play with snakes, drink poison, cure sick people by touching them, and remove devils from people all while shouting gibberish.

Does that identify the people in question as "Christians"?

...just being nitpicky.

 

[Shadylookin]

Does that identify the people in question as "Christians"?

...just being nitpicky.

that depends on which parts of the bible you want to believe in on any given day. Some say casting out devils shows you're a believer while others say it doesn't necessarily make it so.

but if a person says he's a christian and drinks poison without harm, plays with poisonous snakes, cures sick people with the touch of their hands, speaks authentic christian gibberish, and manages to cast out a devil I'll take his word for it(though I probably won't understand what he's saying).

 

[jeps]

I think this is the key. Is "god" in Arabic simply "allah"? We use the English words for "god" and "lord" as the names of the god we worship, under the belief that there is only one, God. If you believe in one god (God/the Lord/the Creator/Allah/etc.) and strive to follow his commands based on the Bible, that seems Christian to me... but if you follow the Bible, you probably recognize Jesus as being the Son as well, so your scenario seems a tad hypothetical to me.

the hypothetical was one of a muslim in all but name. note that I didn't say I follow the bible, but I follow MY interpretation of the bible.

(this hypothetical was designed to show that messianic judaism = christianity)

 

[Agent327]

What counts as your definition of a Christan?

Please give us your definition in as little words as possible.

I was watching some guy get accosted by two JW and two LDS members outside of the video store today when I saw them start to argue with each other over what the definition of a Christan. I was wondering if the Christan people here would even agree.

There's basically two answers to this question: practice and theory. Personally I prefer being a good person over adhering to Christian rituals and doctrines.

 

[Camikaze]

You are way off on this. The world has no shortage of philosophers. Without authority as God his teachings are not greater than his Greek contemporaries. I like the teachings of Proverbs. Does that make me a Solomonist? Plus when you start discounting his teachings where he says he and the Father are one, and such, to what extent can a person say he follows Jesus. (Also, I believe in an earlier message you implied you had a problem understanding the whole Jesus as Redeemer thing, in which case I would recommend Paul's letter to the Romans as a good place to start.)


Thanks for the history lesson; I'll try to be more precise in my posts from now on. So it seems you question Matthew, but vouch for the authenticity of Thomas. Here's something that might surprise you. If we didn't have the 4 gospels today, we could recreate them (all but a few verses) from the writings of the early church fathers who quoted them extensively. Why didn't they quote from your "more fitting" works? It is because they were written too late by Gnostics who didn't believe Jesus was actually ever a real person. That would look real odd next to the letter from James, Jesus' own (half-)brother! Paul only wrote seven books? Drop the cynicism and conspiracy theories. Maybe you'd be more convincing in the What Makes Someone a Universal Unitarian thread.

Maybe I should've written- I don't think the basis of Christianity lies in commandments. This thread is about what makes someone a Christian, and I think it has become clear that there is large disagreement, or varying opinions, about this. Our beliefs are both as correct as each others. They are both unprovable. That is why they are beliefs. And it don't recall discounting his teachings that he and the Father are one. If I have, please show me the error of my ways so I may correct or clarify my statement.

Also, my earlier comment about Jesus as the Redeemer was more a rhetorical question than a quandary. I meant that it commonly is interpreted as meaning He died in order for us to avoid punishment in hell for ever and ever Amen, whereas my belief (possibly shaped by me not experiencing any hardship or suffering in my life) would question this due to the fact that it implied everyone was inherently evil and God was vengeful for this, before sending his Son. I had never experienced God being vengeful, so I find this slightly hard to understand.

Secondly, I wasn't trying to be a conspiracy theorist or a cynic in writing about the authors of the New Testament. I was merely trying to point out that your comment that the writers of it knew Jesus was not accurate. This doesn't make this Testament inaccurate. I was pointing out that there are words contained outside of the confines of 'In the beginning' and 'The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen' that may have relevancy or usefulness to a Christian. And I am certainly not trying to discredit Paul for not meeting Jesus. That would be kind've like discrediting Martin Luther King jr. for not meeting Frederick Douglass.

BTW, I belong to a congregation of the Uniting Church in Australia. My congregation would probably be considered quite leftist, or liberal Christian. And I apologise for the misunderstanding.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Of course, since I've never studied theology in the first place, my qualifications are zero.

Since when is a degree in theology a requirement for having an opinion on religion?

If they follow the Golden Rule, yeah. Much moreso than the self proclaimed Christian who doesn't.
And you could fill in the blank with just about anyone and I'd say the same thing, an atheist is a Christian if they follow the Golden Rule. A pagan is a Christian if they follow the Golden Rule...

But what if I, as an atheist who tries to follow the Golden Rule just because it MAKES SENSE, don't want to be considered a Christian?

 

[Munch]

Some may assert that Jesus was a great prophet but isn't it a unique characteristic of Christians that they believe he was the son of god? Perhaps I am naively excluding the demons of hell ...

Christians do believe this... but yeah, it doesn't mean that if you believe it, you're Christian.

I've seen "Faith and Good Works" used before as a nutshell description. It seems like a simple and accurate summary.

'Good works' aren't by any means necessary, as history has taught us. You can be a Christian and be a criminal, or work for the Inquisition. The faith in jesus being the son of god bit however is I think compulsory to be a Christian. I'm interested though: tell me, who believes he is the son of god but is not a Christian (as you have said)?

But what if I, as an atheist who tries to follow the Golden Rule just because it MAKES SENSE, don't want to be considered a Christian?

Exactly, that's why I currently think believing Jesus is the son of god is a compulsory prerequisite for being a Christian, and that good works shouldn't come into it.