What makes someone a Christan?

[Eran of Arcadia]

Yes, it is usually seen as such. But the basis of Christianity doesn't lie in commandments, or the fact that some guy died and then flew up into the sky, but in the teachings of that said guy, or basically, the betterment of humanity. For without those teachings, that guy wouldn't be anything but another victim of crucifixion.

Even with the teachings, he wouldn't have been, except for what (Christians believe) he did.

I was under the impression that the whole "Jesus dying for our sins" part was pretty crucial to Christianity.

I thought it was important enough to be part of the definition, others disagree.

God won't let it rain on this inside of a church. Don't be foolish.

No, that was my point. You need the roof so as not to get wet.

 

[Camikaze]

I was under the impression that the whole "Jesus dying for our sins" part was pretty crucial to Christianity.

It is for a lot of people. But different people believe different things (hence different denominations). I think, however, that it doesn't have to be, as it his life and teachings that are more spectacular and special than his death.

 

[Berzerker]

Yeah, but that's not a very good definition of who a Christian is, since there's a large group of people who fall under your definition who aren't Christian.. and another sizeable group of people who are Christian and don't..

Thats because deeds are more important than words... There are people who dont claim any affiliation with Christianity who are Christians nonetheless by virtue of how they treat others. And there are people claiming to be Christians who behave like aholes. Well, talk is cheap... I'd say the ahole is either lying or dangerously clueless and the Christian is the one trying to follow the Golden Rule. I just cant see "God" giving a damn if you believed Jesus was your savior (whatever that means) when judging your life much less that this God would send someone (his son no less) to that horrible fate to forgive someone else's sin. But thats where I part company with most of organized Christianity...

How is that a step up from the OT? Abraham was told to kill his son as a sacrifice to show his faith and God stopped him before blood was spilled. But in the NT God is sending his son off to bleed all over the place dying a gruesome death. WTH happened? Please! Stop killing people to show yer love for us

 

[Berzerker]

. . . because it rains sometimes?

Yeah? And the roof is blocking the rain coming from the heavens. You just made my point

 

[Berzerker]

Jesus said there were 2 commandments at the heart of the Law of the Prophets

love God
love others

 

[Masquerouge]

I thought it was important enough to be part of the definition, others disagree.

They're not others, they are HERETIC SCUM.

And thus goes the world

 

[Fifty]

There are two main ways:

1) believing in the doctrine of my specific christian sect

or

2) [insert touchy-feely incoherent crap about 'having jesus in your heart']

 

[Camikaze]

Even with the teachings, he wouldn't have been, except for what (Christians believe) he did.

There were many small religions other than Judaism in the area at the time, and it could be argued that the resurrection was merely a tool used by some to bring attention to his teachings over other religion's teachings, with the idea of bringing hope and joy to others. Resurrection stories are by no means exclusive to Christianity, and may have been borrowed from Egyptian mythology IIRC.

This means that the use of a resurrection story meant that Christianity could be created, with which Jesus' teachings would become remarkable, creating a better world. Possibly well intentioned metaphors.

BTW I'm not saying I'm absolutely correct, just adding a different level to discussion.

 

[warpus]

There are people who dont claim any affiliation with Christianity who are Christians nonetheless by virtue of how they treat others.

A nice Muslim is a Christian? Really, you believe this?

 

[azzaman333]

It is for a lot of people. But different people believe different things (hence different denominations). I think, however, that it doesn't have to be, as it his life and teachings that are more spectacular and special than his death.

I don't have great knowledge of Islam, but wouldn't that definition also apply to Islam as well as Christianity? Where the main point is difference is the divinity of Christ, which is only really "proved" by the resurrection?

 

[Luckymoose]

I'm a Christian in the fact that I believe Jesus was a person, who did great things and attempted to help people. I believe there is a god, but he is not active in daily affairs. I believe resurrection means in the hearts and minds of the people, which he is. I'm in the process of converting to Catholicism, so yes I am a Christian, but science comes first.

 

[Camikaze]

I don't have great knowledge of Islam, but wouldn't that definition also apply to Islam as well as Christianity? Where the main point is difference is the divinity of Christ, which is only really "proved" by the resurrection?

Good point. What I'm trying to get at however, is that the literal 'Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and an angel appeared before they talked to the dead Jesus' thing may not be true, as opposed to the basic idea of the resurrection.

Also, I think the main difference is that Christians believe Jesus was the son of God, and the resurrection story may've helped to enforce, or reaffirm that idea.

 

[Archbob]

Accepting Christ as your Lord and Saviour makes you a Christian.

From there on, all bets are off.

Yes, what he said

 

[Kerozine]

His teachings, above all and foremost.

 

[jeps]

If you call the messiah joshua, or yehoshua, but pretend to be Jewish, are you a christian? yes.

belief in jesus.

you guys don't have a "have a christian mother" requirement, and proselytize, making it easy to be a christian.

 

[CaptainF]

A large body count of infidels, gays, and longhairs. Yes, I know jesus was a longhair.

 

[carmen510]

Believing in the Bible.

As for 'devout' Christian, I would say actually following the Ten Commandments and going to Church, regular donations, etc.

As for 'true' Christian, I would say using all rules, such as stoning to death your disobedient children.

 

[Stile]

Yes, it is usually seen as such. But the basis of Christianity doesn't lie in commandments, or the fact that some guy died and then flew up into the sky, but in the teachings of that said guy, or basically, the betterment of humanity. For without those teachings, that guy wouldn't be anything but another victim of crucifixion.

You are way off on this. The world has no shortage of philosophers. Without authority as God his teachings are not greater than his Greek contemporaries. I like the teachings of Proverbs. Does that make me a Solomonist? Plus when you start discounting his teachings where he says he and the Father are one, and such, to what extent can a person say he follows Jesus. (Also, I believe in an earlier message you implied you had a problem understanding the whole Jesus as Redeemer thing, in which case I would recommend Paul's letter to the Romans as a good place to start.)

No-one who wrote the Old Testament knew Jesus.

There is debate over whether the apostle, Matthew, wrote the Gospel of Matthew, or whether it was just a collection of stories passed down orally to an author in the late first century AD. Luke the Evangelist, widely accepted as the writer of the Gospel of Luke, never met Jesus, and was an apostle of Paul. Paul himself never met Jesus, but has seven books in the New Testament. Also, as mentioned above, some other gospels not included existed. For instance, the Gospel of Thomas, written by Thomas, one of Jesus' twelve apostles. As you can see, the New Testament is not a collection of works by those who knew Jesus, and does not include works that may be more fitting of your description.

Thanks for the history lesson; I'll try to be more precise in my posts from now on. So it seems you question Matthew, but vouch for the authenticity of Thomas. Here's something that might surprise you. If we didn't have the 4 gospels today, we could recreate them (all but a few verses) from the writings of the early church fathers who quoted them extensively. Why didn't they quote from your "more fitting" works? It is because they were written too late by Gnostics who didn't believe Jesus was actually ever a real person. That would look real odd next to the letter from James, Jesus' own (half-)brother! Paul only wrote seven books? Drop the cynicism and conspiracy theories. Maybe you'd be more convincing in the What Makes Someone a Universal Unitarian thread.

As for 'true' Christian, I would say using all rules, such as stoning to death your disobedient children.

I bet you'd only have to do that once and every other child in town would get right in line.

 

[El_Machinae]

I find it strange that no one has mentioned Jesus's two rules: the golden rule and loving God.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Someone did, actually.

Jesus said there were 2 commandments at the heart of the Law of the Prophets

love God
love others

See?