What realistic chance would a trained human fighter have against a grown chimpanzee?

[warpus]

In a game of chess I would expect the human fighter to win or at least tie

 

[HoloDoc]

In a game of chess I would expect the human fighter to win or at least tie

You haven't met my ex wife.

 

[Berzerker]

"I'm not trained and have no idea what I'm talking about, but here I explain how it's totally easy if I do these things that trained fighters have difficulty doing."

Chimps are far stronger than humans. And can bite through your arm

My experience with attacking animals is limited to pissed off cats and the dogs on my paper routes. So you disagree with my approach of isolating the chimp's mouth... What would you do instead? I didn't say it was easy and if you believe trained fighters would have difficulty then why are you arguing with me? I said a trained fighter could beat a chimp.

 

[HoloDoc]

My experience with attacking animals is limited to pissed off cats and the dogs on my paper routes. So you disagree with my approach of isolating the chimp's mouth... What would you do instead? I didn't say it was easy and if you believe trained fighters would have difficulty then why are you arguing with me? I said a trained fighter could beat a chimp.

I, and others, have posted in this thread about exactly how strong and vicious chimps are. Against a full grown chimp a human simply wouldn't stand a chance. The neck muscles are way too strong to snap or choke out -- unless you're Brock Lesnar. Are you? - and if you tried it would bite through your arm. Not into; through.

I'd run like a scared little b*tch and hope it left me alone. A single human, no matter how well trained, is t beating a chimp with a knife. A spear... Maybe, if the chimp didn't bat it aside in the initial charge. But you ideally need a ranged weapon like a gun or crossbow. If it's close enough to grab you, the chimp wins every time.

 

[Berzerker]

I, and others, have posted in this thread about exactly how strong and vicious chimps are. Against a full grown chimp a human simply wouldn't stand a chance. The neck muscles are way too strong to snap or choke out -- unless you're Brock Lesnar. Are you? - and if you tried it would bite through your arm. Not into; through.

I'd run like a scared little b*tch and hope it left me alone. A single human, no matter how well trained, is t beating a chimp with a knife. A spear... Maybe, if the chimp didn't bat it aside in the initial charge. But you ideally need a ranged weapon like a gun or crossbow. If it's close enough to grab you, the chimp wins every time.

Running is not an option...what would you do? No knife, no spear, just you. I dont think chimps are that much stronger than us, I'm sure there are stronger humans. I'd put a 6'6" 320 lb offensive lineman up against a chimp.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I think a well trained martial artist would have a reasonable chance
A smaller human fighting against a stronger human for example, but it seems human main advantages such as running and crafting have been taken away.

Pound for pound, our closest cousins in the animal kingdom are about 1.35 times more powerful than humans, according to the first study to compare the underlying biology and mechanics of chimpanzee muscle to human muscle, along with reviewing previous research on the topic. But don't let that get you down. Human muscles have enabled us to walk and run great distances, providing us with the foraging and hunting abilities that ultimately made us human.

https://www.livescience.com/59615-are-chimpanzees-stronger-than-humans.html

 

[Berzerker]

so a 120 lb chimp is 1.35x a 120 lb human?

 

[HoloDoc]

Running is not an option...what would you do? No knife, no spear, just you. I dont think chimps are that much stronger than us, I'm sure there are stronger humans. I'd put a 6'6" 320 lb offensive lineman up against a chimp.

Die. That's what I'd do.

There are stronger humans, but there are humans that are stronger than bears. They are far from the norm. Your offensive lineman is going to have all that muscle and fat bitten to shreds by an angry chimp. In fact, one of the original tests to gauge chimp strength was to put a chimp against an American football team.

Bauman took his study on the road, attempting tests at the Philadelphia Zoo and making inquiries as far afield as Chicago and Cincinnati. In 1926, he returned to the Bronx Zoo, successfully testing the largest chimpanzee then in captivity. That animal, named Boma, pulled 847 pounds one-handed.

How did that compare with humans? As a college teacher in South Dakota, Bauman did what any good scientist would do: He recruited the football team as research subjects. He found that not one of his “husky lads” could pull more than 500 pounds with both hands, and only one had a one-handed pull above 200. What’s more, the football players were free to use the dynamometer as they wished, while the chimpanzees had been forced to pull the apparatus from a clumsy posture in their cages. It appeared that chimpanzees really could be more than five times stronger than humans.

Incidentally, that particular chimp was a stronger than usual alpha male. But if we allow for outliers in human strength, we must also allow for outliers in chimp strength. Bauman also pissed off the chimps to make them pull the weight, making them stronger than usual. Since a chimp in a fight is already pissed off, I don't see that it affects the point here.

Chimps have denser musculature than humans, meaning a chimp is between 1.5-2 times as strong as a human with exactly the same muscle mass. They are considerably more athletic, with a grip strength around 8 times that of a human. They have built-in knives in their mouths that can bite through bone, and can spring faster than Usain Bolt, and over a greater distance. They can also climb far faster than any human, so you can't get away by climbing a tree.

 

[HoloDoc]

I think a well trained martial artist would have a reasonable chance
A smaller human fighting against a stronger human for example, but it seems human main advantages such as running and crafting have been taken away.

Enough strength can overcome any amount of technique, which is why guys like the aforementioned Brock Lesnar are so scary; they have strength and technique. Add the grip strength, the teeth, overdevelopment of the chest and shoulders compared to humans, and it isn't as comparable as at first glance.

 

[FriendlyFire]

so a 120 lb chimp is 1.35x a 120 lb human?

Do you have to use Imperial ? (54Kilo) is the average weight for a full grown chimpanzee so when they tested strength they had to take into account the weight
I'd imagine Chimpanzee has much stronger arm muscles and weaker leg muscles, that's why they point out humans ability to out run chimpanzee

 

[HoloDoc]

Do you have to use Imperial ? (54Kilo) is the average weight for a full grown chimpanzee so when they tested strength they had to take into account the weight
I'd imagine Chimpanzee has much stronger arm muscles and weaker leg muscles, that's why they point out humans ability to out run chimpanzee

This is true, although chimps can still out-sprint and out-jump a human. They lack the ability for endurance running and walking.

I'm assuming wild chimps weigh less than those in captivity, because chimps in zoos clearly weigh more than 54kg. I've seen a few that look about my weight (80kg). I suppose the hair could exaggerate size.

 

[Berzerker]

Die. That's what I'd do.

There are stronger humans, but there are humans that are stronger than bears. They are far from the norm. Your offensive lineman is going to have all that muscle and fat bitten to shreds by an angry chimp. In fact, one of the original tests to gauge chimp strength was to put a chimp against an American football team.

Bonzo Goes to College

 

[Traitorfish]

The knife fight scenario is too heavily biased in the chimp's favour. Two words:

Sniper duel.

 

[red_elk]

Running is not an option...what would you do?

I'd try to achieve a face-saving compromise.

 

[Yeekim]

I, and others, have posted in this thread about exactly how strong and vicious chimps are. Against a full grown chimp a human simply wouldn't stand a chance. The neck muscles are way too strong to snap or choke out -- unless you're Brock Lesnar. Are you? - and if you tried it would bite through your arm. Not into; through.

I'd run like a scared little b*tch and hope it left me alone. A single human, no matter how well trained, is t beating a chimp with a knife. A spear... Maybe, if the chimp didn't bat it aside in the initial charge. But you ideally need a ranged weapon like a gun or crossbow. If it's close enough to grab you, the chimp wins every time.

A bite through arm won't necessarily kill you. Getting stabbed in the throat will, however.
Again, if a 70-year old guy can take down 750lbs grizzly with a knife, then a guy in 20s, in great shape and trained to use a knife has a chance against a 120lbs chimp.
He could easily get half his face chewed off, but he'd have a chance. For all the speed and strength of the chimp, it's not as if it would be impervious to knives.
And it is unlikely it'd be smart enough to focus on avoiding it either.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Knife is deadly weapon, but has quite low stopping power (not sure if it's correct term in English). That's why it's bad choice for self-defense.
But I'm pretty sure a punch from heavyweight boxer will knock chimp unconscious.

Not sure about that. There are some videos in YouTube about spear hunting that i will not post here due to the gruesomeness, where a guy kills a bear with a single spear blow, and the bear dies almost as quickly as hit by a .50 bullet. The spear used is nothing but a long stick with a big knife attached to the extreme.

 

[HoloDoc]

A bite through arm won't necessarily kill you. Getting stabbed in the throat will, however.
Again, if a 70-year old guy can take down 750lbs grizzly with a knife, then a guy in 20s, in great shape and trained to use a knife has a chance against a 120lbs chimp.
He'd could easily get half his face chewed off, but he'd have a chance. For all the speed and strength of the chimp, it's not as if it would be impervious to knives.
And it is unlikely it'd be smart enough to focus on avoiding it either.

Chimps do tend to avoid weapons actually. They have been known to use clubs.

Not sure about that. There are some videos in YouTube about spear hunting that i will not post here due to the gruesomeness, where a guy kills a bear with a single spear blow, and the bear dies almost as quickly as hit by a .50 bullet. The spear used is nothing but a long stick with a big knife attached to the extreme.

A spear actually has excellent stopping power. It has far greater penetrative force than a knife.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Incidentally, that particular chimp was a stronger than usual alpha male. But if we allow for outliers in human strength, we must also allow for outliers in chimp strength. Bauman also pissed off the chimps to make them pull the weight, making them stronger than usual. Since a chimp in a fight is already pissed off, I don't see that it affects the point here.

Football players in 1926 were closer to my strength than they would be to actual professionals today, who far outclass normal people. A lineman wouldn't be likely to equal the chimp's strength, but he'd be a lot closer than they were back then.

There's something to be said for raw weight advantage too. p = mv and whatnot, 330 pounds or so generates a lot of force and is a non-trivial baseline advantage independent of strength (as anybody who's wrestled the high school fat kids in the 275 pound class while weighing 100 pounds less can attest, even if you're physically stronger it's pretty difficult).

 

[Snerk]

Is it a radioactive chimp? (already done?)

 

[Silurian]

A radioactive chimp should be discussed in the second thread after this one gets to 1000.