What should the US response Be?

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

Jeez guy's ,there's no need for basching here.

My oppinion:

from Magnus:

ahhh, woke23, while I admire your idealistic views, I should think that any captured terrorist wouldn't say squat - if they are willing to die for their cause, they would rather die than spill their guts to the enemy... that is unless you support torture as a means for information... <hr></blockquote>

This concludes the ethical part.we probably have just to kill all the terrorists.

This kind of war should be run as surgical special forces strikes that culminate in assassinations of the leaders of these groups. Get the best of the best special forces from around the world, head into the middle east and do some 'headhunting' of the baddest of the bad - without leadership, the terrorist organizatrions will fall into chaos and cease to be effetual for many years to come. <hr></blockquote>

Lokalize the terrorists and kill them (especcialy their leaders (and resources)).it's (probably) the best and most constructive thing we can do.<br />This way avoiding much civillian loses.I wana add something to that:<br />1 If it come's to big cities, we probaly will have to bombard them.Infantry storming cities is not smart.In that ,we'll probably kill mostly civilians.(Like in Tjetsnia)<br />2 Mountains are plentifull in Afhanistan.It's add to the defense of the terrorists.(tjetsnia,Macedonia)

 

[floppa21]

WOKE!!! Put Bin Laden in a new society where he has to talk to people and make friends???

YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!! AOA WAS RIGHT!!! Are you using your head? He does not think like a human. He has NO RESPECT for human life. I didn't even waste my time finishing what you wrote, that is ridiculous!!! I can't believe this ****. Oooh yah, let's talk to him!!! I'll teach him how to hackysack, AOA can teach him how to jumprope.... WAKE UP!!!! AGH!!!! STUPIDITY!!!!! STUPIDITY!!!!!

 

[floppa21]

Originally posted by woke23:<br /><strong><br />If you put Osamma Ben Laden in a prisson or better: in a more or less free and open society with people of many other cultures, he will start thinking. You will see that he has to adapt. He will have to make new friends, new conversations. He will be forced to think differently.

In the Netherlands, we have these centres where we give refugees from other countries shelter. They are all together in 1 house. These are all kind of cultures together. Even sworn enemies. You NEVER see any fights in these places. The people have nothing but eachother, and you see how they listen to eachother.<br /></strong><hr></blockquote>

Are you insane!!!

 

[woke25]

Im sorry, I realize this is not the time to talk about psychology.

I understand that Osamma Ben Laden is a seriously desturbed and sick man. He brainwashes other moslims to his radical believes. There is NO GOOD in anything that he does.

All i was trying to say is: lets keep our head cool. lets not jump to their level and just kill off everyone to get refenge. The purpose is now to eradicate the problem. The problem may be fixed better in subtle way.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

to Floppa21: (and woke ,and other basher's)

Cool down man.You guy's all just have different oppinions.Just Accept that.Or try to hold a CONSTRUCTIVE discussion.

Anyway ,what Woke said was very humane.I'm for this sort of prison-system too.Although i think that for Bin Laden this won't be very apropiate.<br />We will probably never get him alive anyway.<br />And if we do ,We just have to use him as an example.<br />i'm a humane person too.Bin Laden certainly isn't.Still he is a Human being.But using him as an example will probably save a lot of live's.maybe even me!<br />Tuesday was a SYMBOLIC tragedy.We must react with symbolic decision's.

And this is just my oppinion ,so it's not per se 100% true...

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by woke23:<br /><strong>All i was trying to say is: lets keep our head cool. </strong><hr></blockquote>

You will not easily find a more cold blodded calculating wager of war than myself. I am not enraged, nor do i hate mour enemies in this situation, by I have a deep rational resolve to destroy them and render them utterly helpless to make further attacks against us.

<img src="graemlins/snipersmilie.gif" border="0" alt="[Sniper]" />

 

[G-Man]

to woke 23- Why would you want Bin Laden to change his thoughts? After what he did, I don't give a fu** about what he thinks. I say the US should kill him and destroy his orgenization, starting with him, and continuing all the way down to the buisness men who supprted him. Anyone that supports an anti-American terror group is a danger to the US and it's citizens, and must be captured or killed. <img src="graemlins/snipersmilie.gif" border="0" alt="[Sniper]" />

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: G-Man ]</p>

 

[woke25]

Originally posted by G-Man:<br /><strong>Why would you want Bin Laden to change his thoughts?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thank you for asking this question! Immagine what influence it would have if the world would see a man like Osamma Ben Laden change his ways and actually have remorse for his ways? There is no bigger tool then that to completely demoralize Islamitic radicalism!

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

"How is that foolish?"<br />Weell, for one thing the decisions makers and most decently infromed persons already know what Bin Laden and his allied groups want, and that his objectives are incosistant with the continued extiance of western democracies that have any significant world international power or interest. He want to otverthrow, by any means available, all governments throughout any part of the worl that was at any time "Moslem" and replace them with Suuni Fundamentalist states similar to Afghanistan. Most ot the western powers and many of the other power will use sustatial means to prevent this. Therefor to achieve his goal he must destroy the ecomonic, political, and military pwer of most of these governemnts. He is starting form the top down. netherlands is a little ways down that list, but not too far, since it has significant connect through what Bin Laden veiws as the "Moslem" world.<br />In short his objective is fudamentalist conquest of the "Moslem" world and there is no real possibility and any diplomatic arangement between that and our (and your) nation's position that he may not do that.<br />Nor does anybody with theleast bit wisdomn believe that any of the nations in the now largest colaiton in the hsitory of the world are going to negotiate anthing with worst war crimminal of the 21rst century.

 

[BlueMonday]

I was discussing our mutual problem with one of my co-workers last night when I had an epiphany.

There are no solutions

This whole action just tightens the intricate knot of hatred. Every American is now living in a giant catch-22. If we sit on our ass and do nothing we invite every fanatic who can strap a bomb to something to kill every American they can. If we go out and fight we murder countless people and then their relatives strap a bomb or pick up a gun and try to kill every American they can. But given these two options there is one and ONLY on thing we can do, fight back. Will it solve anything? No. Will it stop terrorism? No. But whether or not it will solve any of the world's problems is completely irrelevant.

It's a terrible thing to know that what you will do will cause even more problems, but, unfortuneatly, there is absolutely no other choice. Terrorism will never end; America will never end. And there is only one course of action but it will lead us further down the road of perpetual hatred.

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by SunTzu:<br /><strong>**** You Woke! <br />Yeah we're gonna leave the middle east.....once we ****ing turn it into a mother ****ing parking lot.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You're every bit as evil as the terrorists flying those planes. To think otherwise is the worst kind of hypocrisy.

 

[Cropduster]

I don't want Osama or any other of those guys brought to the US. I don't want to hear their point of view. No trials. They should be killed quickly, where they stand, with no last words and no followers to witness their deaths. Just explain that they were found to have committed suicide in some back-room someplace several weeks before their bodies were discovered while their followers were foolishly slaughtered trying to carry out the impossible orders of a madman.

The governments that harbour these self-proclaimed leaders will hopefully be eliminated and replaced with a democracy after we "clean out" the most radical jihad-types.

I'm generally against killing civilians, but I wouldn't want to have their crazy-ass governments return any time soon. After all, Germans and Japanese blindly followed their crazy leaders until they were beaten to a pulp. As with them, the devastation that must ensue within their contries must be both far reaching and crippling, so that all can learn. But when it is finally finished, after they have all witnessed the incredible strength and resolve of the American people and military power, we must also show them America's signature ability to stand with our fallen enemies and show mercy, compassion, and forgiveness. The world must become a better place.

 

[woke25]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola:<br /><strong>"How is that foolish?"<br />Weell, for one thing the decisions makers and most decently infromed persons already know what Bin Laden and his allied groups want, and that his objectives are incosistant with the continued extiance of western democracies that have any significant world international power or interest. He want to otverthrow, by any means available, all governments throughout any part of the worl that was at any time "Moslem" and replace them with Suuni Fundamentalist states similar to Afghanistan. Most ot the western powers and many of the other power will use sustatial means to prevent this. Therefor to achieve his goal he must destroy the ecomonic, political, and military pwer of most of these governemnts. He is starting form the top down. netherlands is a little ways down that list, but not too far, since it has significant connect through what Bin Laden veiws as the "Moslem" world.<br />In short his objective is fudamentalist conquest of the "Moslem" world and there is no real possibility and any diplomatic arangement between that and our (and your) nation's position that he may not do that.<br />Nor does anybody with theleast bit wisdomn believe that any of the nations in the now largest colaiton in the hsitory of the world are going to negotiate anthing with worst war crimminal of the 21rst century.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I understand this. there is no diplomatic solution to this. But that doesnt mean we cant talk about this. Lets have him on Jerry Springer and make a fool out of him, just like already is done with the Ku Klux Klan.

 

[Magnus]

Very true, BlueMonday,

but no matter what America and her allies do to the terrorists, no matter how merciless we behave, we shall NEVER sink to their level of inhumanity. We shall never become that which we are fighting.

 

[floppa21]

BlueMonday is right. I posted in another thread, I'll try to retype it here. I say revenge should be hittin them back, and harder. If we go kill 100,000 of their people, some boy is orphaned, grows up hating America (like he doesn't already) and we essentially give birth to the future Bin Ladens... It'll just go back and forth and escalate each time. Eventually, we are going to not be hit with planes, but with nerve-gas or napalm or mustard or whatever. Chemical, biological, nuclear. All a lot worse. So what is the solution? Short of a Hitler style genocide, there isn't one. But good things can come from this. Such as alliances, one step closer to "world peace" if that term even exsists still(it did when I was younger)... Free world trade... Hell, Cuba was backin us, of course, you wanna talk embargo? Well now I just ramble. I don't think there is a solution, at least not a good one, but there can be some good aftereffects to it all. I don't in any way try to undermine the value of American life or this tragedy by saying that so don't read that into it.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by woke23:<br /><strong>All i was trying to say is: lets keep our head cool. lets not jump to their level and just kill off everyone to get refenge. The purpose is now to eradicate the problem. The problem may be fixed better in subtle way.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmm, I seem to remember a suposedly cool headed, rational, moral, pacifist Dutchcman who wanted to kill any and all Americans because their government refused to ratify and then rejected a treaty that he liked. I suspect this event may have had a delitorious effect on his credibility. If it were to be combined with, say, a few slighly foolish pronoucements, it might even result in some, less patient, posters in dismissing his opinions as unworthy of consideration. But, I could just be going out on limb with this speculation.<br />It is fortunate that he has not repeated this performance since Wednesday, when the unanimous Nato declaration under article V of the treaty made the Netherlands a party to hostilities against terrorists who had attacked a NATO nation. European governments are less tolerant of such threats, even as rhetoric, than the USA is.

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: Lefty Scaevola ]</p>

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Edit DP

<br />And no, jolly old chum, I am not going to let you live it down for the foreseeable future. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: Lefty Scaevola ]</p>

 

[HIEROPHANT]

The ugly face of death has risen from the ancient sands of the desert.

In the mountains of medieval hatred a wicked hand tries to grasp and strangle the life breath of inocence and freedom.

Shadowy tentacles slither across the world turning honorable men into suicidal murderers.

A wall of tears now resides where a twin Wonder of the world once stood, emtombing inocense forever.

The crys of murdered humanity fresh in mind gives this country the resolve to surround the evil voice and silence it forever.

 

[woke25]

I understand your logic Lefty in that you say that I might be "somewhat" inconsequent to my believe of violence. However there is a logic to it.

I am an environmentalist. A nuclear holocaust starting in Afganistan is not so healthy for us all. I prefer the use of confensional weapons.

I'm not sure what is more environmental friendly though: accept the polution from nuking the entire united states and instantly remove all production of polution, or just let them polute and accept it till all fosil fuels are depleted. (everyone who takes this thought seriously is an idiot <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> )

 

[Cropduster]

A little genocide would do the world some good.