When, if at all, will you purchase Civ VII based on what you have seen so far?

[Seek]

I despise the predatory DLC policy and the fact that we do not have an option to pre-order the complete game..

I wouldn’t characterize Civ’s expansion model as “predatory” since it allows the devs to create new systems and literally expand on the ideas of the game in ways that wouldn’t be possible without years of players giving feedback and development. (Personally, I enjoy giving said feedback too if I’m enjoying the game, so I like to get Civ games at release.)

To your second point, every civ game since civ II has had expansions so expecting civ VII to change and release in a “complete” state is unrealistic. I suppose one could argue that selling the civ packs is kind of greedy, but they are extraneous extras imo and not integral to enjoying the game. Given how involved each civ is to develop nowadays, with a multitude of art and unit assets as well as myriad abilities, I actually think they’re somewhat fairly priced (at preorder prices anyway, it’s still unknown what they will cost individually).

Sorry if I sound argumentative, I just think it’s an unfair characterization.

 

[Naokaukodem]

I plan to buy it day one on PS5, just to be in the hype wagon because I spend too much time on forums and YouTube, and don't want to be spoiled, and because that way, I could spend the money from my Rakuten wallet that has nothing else to do so it's basically "free" (I mean I don't see it in my counts at the end of the month), thx to that Zelda Link's Awakening sold an indecent price. (+200€ )
As to the PC version, it will have to have good arguments to convince me wasting 70€ in it, as I'm currently struggling with my energy and insurance bills that inflate to a point this is ridiculous. (they are mad) Will probably borrow a side version without Denuvo though.

 

[Jeppetto]

On the other, I despise the predatory DLC policy and the fact that we do not have an option to pre-order the complete game.

You mean pre-order Complete Edition perhaps 10 years before its release? Pretty sure that would be expensive and considered more predatory. Not good for consumer, not good for the corporate.

 

[Vitruvian Guar]

I wouldn’t characterize Civ’s expansion model as “predatory” since it allows the devs to create new systems and literally expand on the ideas of the game in ways that wouldn’t be possible without years of players giving feedback and development. (Personally, I enjoy giving said feedback too if I’m enjoying the game, so I like to get Civ games at release.)

I'm okay with companies asking for fair compensation for their work. I'm against weaponising psychological tricks which actively drain the willpower of their customers and push them to do extra cognitive labor.

To your second point, every civ game since civ II has had expansions so expecting civ VII to change and release in a “complete” state is unrealistic. I suppose one could argue that selling the civ packs is kind of greedy, but they are extraneous extras imo and not integral to enjoying the game. Given how involved each civ is to develop nowadays, with a multitude of art and unit assets as well as myriad abilities, I actually think they’re somewhat fairly priced (at preorder prices anyway, it’s still unknown what they will cost individually).

I'm not expecting everything be released at the same time. But I'd like to have an offer where I can preorder the full experience and then relax and enjoy it as soon as it is released, without being constantly teased by neverending special offers, FOMO and gotta-catch-them-all mindset.

You mean pre-order Complete Edition perhaps 10 years before its release? Pretty sure that would be expensive and considered more predatory. Not good for consumer, not good for the corporate.

Yep. I'd love such package deal even if it costed say $350$. I don't see what can be called predatory when the company is honestly stating a price, without trying to hide it in a hundred microtransations.

I believe the existence of such deal would be great for everybody and explain my reasoning in this thread. I don't know where the claim that such offer will do some weird trick to human psychology and disincentivise buying the founders edition while not incentivising the buying of the complete one, is true. For me personally, it would definetely do the opposite.

 

[Jeppetto]

Well all I am saying is that I saw people already being sceptical about the NF / Leader Passes, which functioned as pre-orders of unrevealed gradually released content over a year. Some considered that predatoty or at least questionable tactic and passed on the pass. Whole game of 10 possible years of continual support is even larger.

And this also means they would have to have planned precisely content for those 10 years, limiting flexibility and providing something based on feedback rather than plan.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

For those opposed to civ switching, do you want the game to remain the same forever? Yes it's gamey, but so was Civ 6 mechanics like the adjacency bonus. It was ridiculous putting universities next to mountains, but we all did it.

This is as fundamentally absurd as saying

"For those who like civ switching, do you want the game to fundamentally change to the maximum degree."

I'm pretty sure there's noone who would be comfortable with civ becoming a first person shooter

I'm pretty sure there's also noone who would be comfortable with firaxis releasing an exact copy of a previous civ game under the name civ 7.

There is copious middle ground between those two things. Somewhere in there is civ switching, and for plenty of people that's over the line, and for plenty of people it's not.

Civ has managed to successfully launch 6 games already that were different enough to satisfy and grow it's audience without civ switching. It is not inevitable that this is the only way things could change about the franchise, and it's a perfectly reasonable design criticism.

Posts like yours are reductive and dismissive and add nothing to the discussion about the issue, it only serves to shut down dissent as ridiculous through straw manning the position.

For what's it's worth, we didn't all do it either. I was excited for civ 6 but ending up hating it, and could not get behind the gameyness of it, so you aren't selling civ switching to me with that argument

 

[Vitruvian Guar]

Well all I am saying is that I saw people already being sceptical about the NF / Leader Passes, which functioned as pre-orders of unrevealed gradually released content over a year. Some considered that predatoty or at least questionable tactic and passed on the pass. Whole game of 10 possible years of continual support is even larger.

Passing on the offer is completely fine. People have different preferences, some like to know exactly what they are buying. They would still have an option to accure DLCs separately.

Some just want to have the full package without extra cognitive labor - they can per-order the complete edition. The point is that there were offers for every type of customer.

And this also means they would have to have planned precisely content for those 10 years, limiting flexibility and providing something based on feedback rather than plan.

Not really. People can make decisions unders uncertainty. You don't need to plan everything, you can just have a broad strokes picture for a good enough estimate and then fill up the gaps based on the feedback and everything. Like, one doesn't have to see the future to somewhat confidently predict that there are going to be 2 major expansions for Civ 7.

 

[Seek]

I'm against weaponising psychological tricks which actively drain the willpower of their customers and push them to do extra cognitive labor.

So am I. Thankfully, I see no evidence of Firaxis doing this with civ VII (yet). What makes you suggest that they are?

 

[Calico Jack]

I'm very unlikely to ever buy this, unless the civ switching mechanic can be smoothly modded out. Even then, I'd want it at a significant discount.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

On one hand I'm really hyped about the game and like the absolute majority of what I'm seeing. On the other, I despise the predatory DLC policy and the fact that we do not have an option to pre-order the complete game.

The right thing, would be to wait several years till all the expansions are released and then buy the complete edition. Not sure whether I'll manage to do it. Most realistic scenario that I'll get the base game, and then ignore all the expansions, till the release of the complete edition.

That's what I did with Humankind. DLC's has added nothing to the base game mechanics so far, just more civs. Not even scenarios.

But this problem is secondary to the City cap limit that forced players in Humankind to play tall. If Civ 7 do not remove the city cap limit completely I will
not buy the base game. It is forced playstyle to me and it's a hard pass. This is more cumbersome than civ switching in my view.

I would limit city expansion instead to the capital only, and then allow unlimited city placement, with very limited expansions slots or no expansion slots at all other than the base 6.
I saw this in Humankind. You found your 4 cities and then the game basically ends there. You just have to manage your four cities and you win the game. Wonders rush game.

 

[Gorbles]

Not really. People can make decisions unders uncertainty. You don't need to plan everything, you can just have a broad strokes picture for a good enough estimate and then fill up the gaps based on the feedback and everything. Like, one doesn't have to see the future to somewhat confidently predict that there are going to be 2 major expansions for Civ 7.

And yet, the way things are moving given that Steam made / is making a change in this regard, committing to something that for any reason they can't deliver on makes them liable.

I doubt that 2K would take on that responsibility. They'll let it fall on the dev studio, as is so often the case.

I feel you on not wanting to having all these packs to feel driven to purchase. I'm just not sure the longterm purchase deal is viable. Too many ways it could be exploited by insincere devs / publishers, and too many ways it increases the risk to deliver for devs in a market which is (in)famously run on cut-throat margins (at the developer / studio level, if funded by a publisher).

 

[tiamats4esgares]

I don't plan to buy it. Maybe it'll be good in a few years and worth buying on sale for like $10, but I doubt it. They changed the formula way too much in a bad way. Everything mew I hear about the game is negative.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

And yet, the way things are moving given that Steam made / is making a change in this regard, committing to something that for any reason they can't deliver on makes them liable.

I doubt that 2K would take on that responsibility. They'll let it fall on the dev studio, as is so often the case.

I feel you on not wanting to having all these packs to feel driven to purchase. I'm just not sure the longterm purchase deal is viable. Too many ways it could be exploited by insincere devs / publishers, and too many ways it increases the risk to deliver for devs in a market which is (in)famously run on cut-throat margins (at the developer / studio level, if funded by a publisher).

Steam subscribe policy is really bad, the Stopkillingvideogames EU campaign when implemented, it will force Steam to once again change its policies.
Right now there are discussions on regain the right to sell the videogames you bought as goods, and not as services, or worst, as online services, possible.

When I bought Civ V physical DVD at Gamestop, I didn't know there was no game inside, and I would have been forced to download the game from Steam.
When I bought the game, I could not egree to the EULA of Steam, that prohibits you to resell the licence, via serial number, of any game you activate in your
Steam account. If I wanted to gift Civ V to one of my younger cousins, I can't. If I would like to re-sell Civ VI with all its DLC, I can't.

Firaxis should force Steam to accept Civ VII licence to be not considered as a service, but as a good, and prohibit its policy of forbid to sell or exchange its licence,
removing it from a user account, and activating it on whoever is the new owner.

I spent close to 100 Euro maybe more on Civ VI, and I would like to be able to resell it, even for 10 Eur, as I don't play it anymore.
And invest that money on Civ VII. But I can't.
Steam will NEVER enact a policy like this. Steam is a money printing machine. Don't fool you otherwise.
Firaxis has the power instead of protecting its customers for the future, before we European force a new law on everybody that
wants to sell videogames in the Eu, with a right to resell digital videogames law similar to the Stopkillingvideogames law that is about to happen.

Will Firaxis / 2K do such a thing? Or is it only concerned about Piracy?
Devs has no power over this matter.

It is right to maybe buy the full version of Civ VI now for 10 Eur, 10 years later.
But new digital copies costing 100-300 Eur for a complete game with all expansion and still be treated
like you own nothing? This is tuff, and Steam policies do not help in the slightest.

Sony secondary Sony PSN account requirements on Steam has caused a massive Pirating migration on new Sony released games.
Sony does not has Denuvo at this point. Wukong has Denuvo and people buys it. Still they own nothing and Denuvo is a de-facto DRM that could
also potentially expire... 2K shoud be very cautios with it...

With the new Stopkillingvideogames law, every game with Denuvo will be forced to apply some changes...

 

[Emotional Husky]

Will purchase the minute it is available on Mac (and not required to use Steam) if that ever happens.

 

[Aquila SPQR]

"I'll wait a year or more for it to be on sale"

And then only if there will be mods disabling mandatory civ switching and reducing the size of cities (limit on districts) because those insanely huge metropolises look awful.

 

[Sherlock]

I'm tired of game companies doing things that are against my best interests and I'm voting with my dollars from now on.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I haven't pre-ordered yet. There is so much about what I see that looks like a great shakeup of the series:

Ages
Crises
Civ switching
Divorcing leaders from civs
Removing builders
Commanders

But right now the main hesitation is one which has been slowly building with each civ reveal. They all have so many little bonuses to stats here and there that most of them have kind of blend together in my head. I've tried to focus on the Traditions to get a sense of each civ's character, but right now the civs don't feel really "unique" to me because there's an excess of "+1" bonuses.

A related hesitation is that they seem to be really leaning into ridiculous yields, and that tends to make all those small stat bonuses kind of meaningless. I wish overall they went with more meaningful bonuses and smaller yield numbers to make everything feel like it "matters", if that makes sense.

Still a very high likelihood I will purchase, but a couple of niggling doubts which have prevented me from doing so yet.

 

[GrayingGamer]

My option wasn't listed - I'm waiting a week or two to see how the reviews shape up. The initial hype and novelty phases inflate all reviews, but after some time reality will bubble up. I really hope it's great!

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Will purchase the minute it is available on Mac (and not required to use Steam) if that ever happens.

Me too, but Mac do not have DVD players anymore, they have SD and MicroSD.
So hopefully it will be released Physical, compatible with Mac, Steam Deck, and Switch, in one move.
Even if I don't know the caviats of owning a Switch, Steam Deck, Xbox, or Playstation, I guess it's still possible to sell Civ VII on a media
that can be updateable, without the need for constant Internet connection or a separate Hard drive.
256gb SD should suffice for a very long term. 15 eur on Amazon 256Gb Sd is a pretty good deal.
Less than a Blu Ray Disc, or a 50X 4.7 Gb DVD/RW....
I think the DVD / Physical release was already discussed in the Denuvo thread... anyway...

There is no reason why it has to be a one user only licence, because otherwise Steam will not host the files for free.
The Physical copies would go nuts, and people that still want to get it on Steam because, hey, my whole library is there already...
could still decide to do so.

Cross your fingers.

 

[queenpea]

So am I. Thankfully, I see no evidence of Firaxis doing this with civ VII (yet). What makes you suggest that they are?

I’m not sure, but I think they are referring to pre-order bonuses and the fact that they are already marketing two DLC packs in the Founder’s Edition, etc., before vanilla is even released. Also, visual assets, like fog of war tiles are also for sale this time around.

If it’s not predatory, it’s certainly aggressive, and, in my opinion, in bad taste. I understand that these practices are common throughout the video gaming industry in 2024, but it’s still ok for consumers to find this kind of DLC model objectionable.