when to sleep

My first attempt at showing Rushlighting in Medieval times was a near flop.

So how about this http://www.lightlink.com/rhiannon/Bedwyrs handouts/Bedwyrs Lighting/rushlights.html

Read someplace that they've found Rushlights from as far back as 800bc.

Lots of rush used to grow here in NL. (is called rus or pitriet)
Easily harvested from bogs, and dried still bendable, it was used to weave baskets, chair seats, mats, etc.
It has long longitudinal pores

As kids we stole it and used it to smoke (cigarettes stolen from our parents were scarce).
The smoke very sharp to the tongue BTW.
 
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going to bed at around 2 or 3am and waking up at around 11 is how I usually do it on my free days. on my work days I usually go to bed at 2/ 3am and get up at around 8. ironically enough, I feel the most awake when I've had precisely less than 5 hours of sleep. my body goes into a weird primal energy mode. usually I get up slowly, butwhen I sleep little I just jump out of the bed.
 
going to bed at around 2 or 3am and waking up at around 11 is how I usually do it on my free days. on my work days I usually go to bed at 2/ 3am and get up at around 8. ironically enough, I feel the most awake when I've had precisely less than 5 hours of sleep. my body goes into a weird primal energy mode. usually I get up slowly, butwhen I sleep little I just jump out of the bed.
That sounds like adrenaline, which tends to spike when you are sleep deprived. I've heard that constantly elevated adrenaline levels are pretty bad for your health.
 
That sounds like adrenaline, which tends to spike when you are sleep deprived. I've heard that constantly elevated adrenaline levels are pretty bad for your health.

With the right amount of sleep deprivation, a bit hungry and a bit cold... I was always razor sharp and at my best performance.

I once did an examen for my study where I had finished learning the afternoon before and decided to sleep normally. The result was clearly much less than usual (where I spend mostly the last 24 hours learning with just some hours sleep). I therefore kept my habit (of that "adrenaline spike").
There is indeed a lot of talk on adrenal fatigue. But so far, despite many health books etc on it, AFAIK the official position taken is that although the complaints of tiredness etc being real enough there is no recognition of adrenal fatigue as a true medical condition.
Hormonal stuff is elusive :sad:
 
It also seems sketchy to me how much this seems to trace back to one guy's book. Most of what I can find on the internet cites the 2005 book At Day's Close: Night in Times Past by Roger Ekirch. Not saying his book is wrong, but it'd be nice if there were more sources (and there could be, but his book is just the one anyone knows about). Btw, if you're curious, I found this. It's the Ekirch guy briefly arguing against a paper that claimed bimodal sleep was only a thing in very high latitudes because of very long nights during the winter. Gives a sense of how much is known about this topic. Plus it's interesting and somewhat amusing.

Compiled in one book the case is indeed thin and yet taking it over spread like wildfire.
When I first read someting about it it felt like making sense for two resons:
A. I read a lot of everything including stuff from old medieval-early modern annals, courtcases, letters, diaries browsing through that when interested in someting (else). Enough patchy confirmation there for plausibility
B. In todays world there is a lot to do about "sleep disorders" mainly people having difficulty to fall asleep or people waking up in the middle of the night and not able to fall asleep easily again. Especialy older people.

Ad B:
Well... what is normal ???
If that 8 hour is normal... waking up in the middle of the night is a disorder
If that breaking your sleep in the middle of the night is normal.... getting that 8 hours uninterrupted is a cultural imposement.

Well, what does that mean? 50% of people did this? 10%? Seven nights a week? One night a week?

So why not assuming diversity ?
Diversity from differences between people, between what you did the day before (physical, stress, kind of food and when), between other ageing phases of your life (and body metabolism). etc.
If I walk my (little) dog.. if we meet a lot of other dogs with all the social interactions... or/and meet a lot of people/kids at the small shopping centre... when we come home she is going to sleep flat out.
When it is raining and walking the dog is shorter and little interaction happens she also goes sleeping afterwards... but when I make myself a coffee an hour later she already wants to play with me. And getting my hands free for other stuff I learned that she will keep on disturbing me unless I give her at least a quarter of an hour game play with fighting over fluffy pets, ball, hide-seek play games, etc.

Ad A
* In medieval time people slept a lot more together in one bed (because of room, warmth, etc). A little baby needed breast milk and made ofc loudly clear when (and mothers had all the time babies).
Not much of that "holy special" bedroom cultus we have now, where anti-snoring devices and earplugs are selling well.
* Chickens were everywhere in medieval time (eggs also a currency unit) including roosters with their cockrow. And cockrow is not only at dawn ! Goes on through the night starting with the "midnight" cockrow roughly around 1 AM. Really handsome as time indicator throughout the night for the vigils (watches). The traditional medieval sundial does ofc not work during the night and clockworks are Renaissance period. Makes me wonder whether wild chicken roosters do the same, or this is part of the domestication effects of chickens (earlier laying eggs, more flesh when adult, less agressive to us or other chickens, etc). Chickens BTW great to keep your yard free of mice and other vermin and eating up food (cooking) remains before they rot..
* You mentioned already prayers. Christianity took over the Jewish tradition of several prayers a day, but in monasteries this blossomed to a whole system since around 400-600 AD. The midnight prayer one of them as part of that highly prescriptive system with many (ideological and identity) changes over time. Bookprinting good for prayerbooks and the tradition was kept up in some way in early protestantism.

etc, etc
 
I will admit I did not realize that argument was so poorly sourced; I instantly believed it the first time I read it because of the sleep disorder issues that @Hrothbern pointed out.
 
I will admit I did not realize that argument was so poorly sourced; I instantly believed it the first time I read it because of the sleep disorder issues that @Hrothbern pointed out.

yeah
What we need is some solid source grinding at university level to get proper confirmation with links to annals etc.

We are getting more and more old documents set over to digital format. The amount however is enormous !!!
A lot of translation and transcription is also needed
Old court records, old church records, letters of people to each other... they are all goldmines.

Once you have it digital you can focus on writing algorithms that can filter intelligently for specific searches as first step before expensive educated humans take over.

EDIT fyi
transcription: https://history-today.de/en/our-services/transcription/
 
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Lately, I've been sleeping multiple times every day, and I end up waking at 4:00 stable. As said before, 7:00 comes fast and it is a nice feeling at this time.

Highly recommend you 'dope' sleep.
 
Lately, I've been sleeping multiple times every day, and I end up waking at 4:00 stable. As said before, 7:00 comes fast and it is a nice feeling at this time.

Highly recommend you 'dope' sleep.
What is "dope sleep"?
 
"When" applies such a level of agency that I've never experienced.
 
I spent a few years at sea, we worked 4 hour shifts.
 
I spent a few years at sea, we worked 4 hour shifts.

yeah
the old watch system on board of ships
Traditional on Dutch ships:
Six watches of 4 hours each. Each watch 8 hourglasses of half an hour each.
After each hourglass the ship's bell was struck in different ways to indicatehow many glasses had passed since start watch.

Translated from Dutch:
20.00-00.00 First watch (eerste wacht)
00.00-04.00 Dog watch (hondewacht)
04.00-08.00 Day watch (dagwacht)
08.00-12.00 Before noon watch (voormiddagwacht)
12.00-16.00 Aftern noon watch (achtermiddagwacht)
16.00-20.00 Flat foot watch (platvoet wacht)

Here you can clearly see that people were supposed to go sleeping at 20.00, and the day started at 04.00.

More as trivia
If I look at the Dutch Seaman's Vocabulary of Wigardus à Winschooten of 1681, updated in 1856 by Jacob van Lennep, with around 4,000 words...
The dog watch was according to the authors called that way because it was the period that at (rural) houses yard dogs watched the houses.
For the flatfoot watch is mentioned that trampling-flatfooting was a sign of annoyment.
In Danish seaman's language the dog watch is called Hundevagten and the flat foot watch is called Platfoden, which translate to the same Dutch words.
All these words must I think have originated during the time that Coastal Baltic trade started around 1300 AD, where ships started being more than 24 hours at sea at a regular base (instead of hopping from port to port during daytime, and BTW Frisian, Danish, North German pirates everywhere)
 
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