when to sleep

[Lohrenswald]

so ideally right midnight is at 12 o'clock

usually one goes for 8 hours of sleep, sometimes less, but then it usually goes as falling asleep later and waking up later, so the sleeping time-area shrinks rather than shift

most people I think usually sleep around 11 o'clock to 7 o'clock, putting like the center of gravity for the sleep time at 3 o'clock

but why, when midnight is 12 o'clock? Why don't we sleep from like 8 o'clock to 4 o'clock to cover the darkest part of the day-night cycle?

 

[Broken_Erika]

Sleep comes after just one more turn.

 

[BenitoChavez]

Why don't we sleep from like 8 o'clock to 4 o'clock to cover the darkest part of the day-night cycle?

The darkest part of the day-night cycle depends on a variety of factors but yes, it is ideal to sleep during then. Why we don't is probably because of electric lights, TVs, computers, phones, etc. It's easier to stay up at night when you have on demand lighting. Before the light bulb, people generally went to bed at sundown because all you had for light then was fire or possibly the moon on a clear night.

 

[GenMarshall]

Sleep comes after just one more turn.

Sleep is for the weak!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The darkest part of the day-night cycle depends on a variety of factors but yes, it is ideal to sleep during then. Why we don't is probably because of electric lights, TVs, computers, phones, etc. It's easier to stay up at night when you have on demand lighting. Before the light bulb, people generally went to bed at sundown because all you had for light then was fire or possibly the moon on a clear night.

Fire on candles was common for centuries, however, and inexpensively produced even by peasants.

However, there was less reason to stay awake. You could see by candle light, but what would peasants do? Most couldn't read, that was largely for scholars/clergy/both, and not commonly done for leisure regardless. I'm sure people did some stuff in this timeframe on occasion, but the lack of any reason to stay awake was likely the most significant barrier. Might as well just sleep and be awake during a time where things are more interesting, in terms of both productivity and leisure.

 

[Truthy]

Before the industrial revolution, in Europe it was common for people to go to sleep not long after sunset, sleep until midnight or 1am (first sleep), wake up for an hour or two, and then go back to sleep for a few more hours (second sleep). During the awake period in the middle, people would pray, chat, read, walk around, have sex, or just sit in bed.

 

[Zkribbler]

Why don't we sleep from like 8 o'clock to 4 o'clock?

I do.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Why don't we sleep from like 8 o'clock to 4 o'clock to cover the darkest part of the day-night cycle?

This is basically what I do. My preferred sleeping time is 9 to 5 through the week.

 

[Narz]

I felt pretty damn good sleeping 10pm til 6am. I slept this way for over a month after my camping trip to Panama but slowly started to slip back into my old ways. I still feel like a lump of **** if I let myself sleep past 11am but that hasn't happened in about nine months now.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Fire on candles was common for centuries, however, and inexpensively produced even by peasants.

Everyone uses candle warmers now.
They glow just like candles, melt the candles and release the candle scents without smoke, and when the cats/dogs knock them over it won't burn down the house.

 

[Berzerker]

in between trips to the toilet

 

[stfoskey12]

so ideally right midnight is at 12 o'clock

usually one goes for 8 hours of sleep, sometimes less, but then it usually goes as falling asleep later and waking up later, so the sleeping time-area shrinks rather than shift

most people I think usually sleep around 11 o'clock to 7 o'clock, putting like the center of gravity for the sleep time at 3 o'clock

but why, when midnight is 12 o'clock? Why don't we sleep from like 8 o'clock to 4 o'clock to cover the darkest part of the day-night cycle?

Because I hate waking up when it's still dark. Also, it's worth noting that when daylight saving time is in effect, solar midnight is actually at 1 o'clock.

 

[Hrothbern]

Before the industrial revolution, in Europe it was common for people to go to sleep not long after sunset, sleep until midnight or 1am (first sleep), wake up for an hour or two, and then go back to sleep for a few more hours (second sleep). During the awake period in the middle, people would pray, chat, read, walk around, have sex, or just sit in bed.

yes
That's what I also learned of info from that time
Though I never could rhyme that with our evolution from apes. Do apes also get up in the night ? Or have our differing brains differing needs ?

Noteworthy in all this that in our circadian rhytm our core body temperature is coldest at around 4 AM and warmest at 4 PM (approx +- 0.2 C)
People in nightshifts are most vulnerable for making mistakes and having accidents around 4 AM.
If you sleep rough, you are also likely to awake cold around that dip.

Light has a big influence but part or much of this in an indirect way: light triggers changes in your core bodytemperature and changes in your core body temperature seem to set the masterclock of circadian related processes in your body.
As if temperature was used earlier in evolution by (cold blooded, non-blooded) organisms and light detecting cells a possibility to add on to an existing mechanism.

 

[xwyhzol]

It's not really 8 hours, it's what's enough sleep; based on how tired you are and how much energy you require next. I wake up at 4:00 daily (I recommend this time because it's in that phase where the clock seems to pass quickly; and you can rest while awake for a period). If you want to copy me try being tired around 9:00.

Time doesn't really pass as they say; it's not been billions of years but billions of years have completed. These cycles don't attribute to one big timeline, they're just growth; there are many timelines. Remember the clock is a human measurement, and trust more so your instinct.

 

[abradley]

I assume in the European area.

 

[Hygro]

I wish right now ************

 

[The_J]

Before the industrial revolution, in Europe it was common for people to go to sleep not long after sunset, sleep until midnight or 1am (first sleep), wake up for an hour or two, and then go back to sleep for a few more hours (second sleep). During the awake period in the middle, people would pray, chat, read, walk around, have sex, or just sit in bed.

How would you reliably wake up in the middle of the night, and why ?

(I have like no biorhythm and can't reliably wake up at any time)

 

[Camikaze]

I imagine most people organise their sleep around their work (or other obligations) rather than picking what works best for sleeping. Most people don't sleep at 8pm because they're not home for long before then.

 

[Truthy]

yes
That's what I also learned of info from that time
Though I never could rhyme that with our evolution from apes. Do apes also get up in the night ? Or have our differing brains differing needs ?

Noteworthy in all this that in our circadian rhytm our core body temperature is coldest at around 4 AM and warmest at 4 PM (approx +- 0.2 C)
People in nightshifts are most vulnerable for making mistakes and having accidents around 4 AM.
If you sleep rough, you are also likely to awake cold around that dip.

Light has a big influence but part or much of this in an indirect way: light triggers changes in your core bodytemperature and changes in your core body temperature seem to set the masterclock of circadian related processes in your body.
As if temperature was used earlier in evolution by (cold blooded, non-blooded) organisms and light detecting cells a possibility to add on to an existing mechanism.

How would you reliably wake up in the middle of the night, and why ?

(I have like no biorhythm and can't reliably wake up at any time)

The "segmented" or "bimodal" sleep thing does seem kind of murky. You'll notice a lot of people (myself included) hedge their bets by saying things like "it was common." Well, what does that mean? 50% of people did this? 10%? Seven nights a week? One night a week? Also, I've seen claims that "other animals" do this, without saying which ones (of course chimps would be the most relevant).

It also seems sketchy to me how much this seems to trace back to one guy's book. Most of what I can find on the internet cites the 2005 book At Day's Close: Night in Times Past by Roger Ekirch. Not saying his book is wrong, but it'd be nice if there were more sources (and there could be, but his book is just the one anyone knows about). Btw, if you're curious, I found this. It's the Ekirch guy briefly arguing against a paper that claimed bimodal sleep was only a thing in very high latitudes because of very long nights during the winter. Gives a sense of how much is known about this topic. Plus it's interesting and somewhat amusing.

 

[abradley]

My first attempt at showing Rushlighting in Medieval times was a near flop.

So how about this http://www.lightlink.com/rhiannon/Bedwyrs handouts/Bedwyrs Lighting/rushlights.html

Read someplace that they've found Rushlights from as far back as 800bc.