Where does Russias sphere of influence end?

[Gooblah]

Please! Not even Koreans are learning Chinese.

Controls 5% of global economy And that is growing...contains 1 billion people..hosts multiple global-level financial centers...is a new global player in tons of situations across the globe.

Learning Chinese isn't a bad idea.

Koreans don't really have to learn Chinese. North Korea is, well, North Korea, and the South Korean economy is slow and dragging, but isn't doing that poorly. Plus, all the MMORPGs come out of Korea, so why learn Chinese when you can play them in your native language?

 

[Bast]

Controls 5% of global economy And that is growing...contains 1 billion people..hosts multiple global-level financial centers...is a new global player in tons of situations across the globe.

Learning Chinese isn't a bad idea.

Koreans don't really have to learn Chinese. North Korea is, well, North Korea, and the South Korean economy is slow and dragging, but isn't doing that poorly. Plus, all the MMORPGs come out of Korea, so why learn Chinese when you can play them in your native language?

Learning any language isn't a bad idea. That's not the point.

See my original post.

 

[Ecofarm]

At Palin's porch

 

[red_elk]

Learning any language isn't a bad idea. That's not the point.

See my original post.

It's hard to disagree with your original point, especially for me.
Though, I'm realist

 

[Gelion]

Soviet Union was another mask for Russian imperialism. That's not completely true, but it is to some extent. Why do You think the most fierce russian nationalists glorify communism and Stalin? Because it's made a state using russian official language and having a capital in Moscow a global power.

What would you rather have? Herbrew? German? What other choices WERE there? Russian culture suffered the most because of this choice and you make it sound as if it was a Russian nationalist plot? I doubt it.

Expansion is not just direct territorial gains, btw.

Russia has no means of expanding - but many of its citizens simply don't know about it. They live in horsehockey conditions, so they take proud at the vast territory of their country and possibility to bull other countries.
Russia is not a world power - but its authorities want to keep their citizen in conviction that it is, because it makes people support them. Perhaps they do believe it themselves, or will start believing it. And then we're in trouble. Russia may not have possibility of expansion, but it may still try to, and that means horrible consequences.

Russia is still a world power, like it or not. Diplomacy, natural resources, science, nuclear weapons and cultural legacy are still world-scale factors contributing to Russia being a world power (a world power, not the world power like US). People in Russia in general just want to be left alone to do their business. That involves you (foreigners) and the government. Dreams of expansion are in the heads of hard-headed nationalists like in Poland or Germany.

Even worse is people in the west accepting russian illusions of grandeur as a fact and admitting Russia has some "sphere of influence". It does not. Its influences are where they really exist - Belarus or eastern Ukraine is a sphere of influence of Russia, for example, but this shouldn't mean other powers can't play there as well, nor that Russia has right to intervene there directly.

Basically you dont want Russia to have a sphere of influence. Yes, it has shrank, but it is still there. Let me tell you another thing - this sphere of influence is the last line that even the corrupt and generally unpatriotic Russian government will hold. If you cross that line you risk a lot of trouble (for both sides).

Poland definitely is not a russian SoI, nor Czech Republic, simply because Russia has hardly any supporters here, mostly because of russian arrogrant policy in post-1989 years. Sympathy for Russia in poland is lower than in 1989. In Ukraine, for the first time in history polls show that majority of population doesn't trust Russia (something like 53:37, don't remember, exactly). If Russia tried to exert political influence by diplomatic means, it would have been more successful. More effective, but less spectacular. And Russia treats foreign policy as a means of controling internal one, just like Kaczynski brothers in Poland. More quarrels abroad = "we are defending Mother Russia against traitorous Ukrainians / perfidious Poles / nazi Georgians.

Aren't we? I agree the policies and words are not exactly smart, but Russian government has their reasons to be paranoid. You mentioned them.

 

[Winner]

It ends where the iron curtain used to be.

Not necessarily.

Russians are trying to buy energy companies in Western Europe too and their goal is to make Western Europe more dependant on Russian gas and oil. Austria, Italy or Germany, for example, are now a lot more willing to listen what Russia says.

Also, if the Russians get their "Trojan Horse" inside the EU, they'll be able to influence the whole bloc, including Netherlands, Ireland or Portugal.

And this time the U.S. won't come to pull you out of trouble. Therefore, we should get past this divisions based on Cold War and finally appreciate that only a coordinated and unified approach by all EU member states, old and new ones alike, can keep Russia within limits.

 

[Mercenary82]

As long as it ends at the German border, I don't care what they do, I think the original NATO countries serve well enough as a buffer against Russia, we don't need to expand our perimeter.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Politically, its sphere of influence is global, due to such factors as being a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council. Militarily, I think Russia can project military power effectively to adjacent nations, discounting its global nuclear reach. Economically, Russia's largest trading partners are the European nations and China. Russia's cultural influence on the world is limited, but is very pronounced in Eastern Europe.

 

[Winner]

Even worse is people in the west accepting russian illusions of grandeur as a fact and admitting Russia has some "sphere of influence". It does not. Its influences are where they really exist - Belarus or eastern Ukraine is a sphere of influence of Russia, for example, but this shouldn't mean other powers can't play there as well, nor that Russia has right to intervene there directly.

Poland definitely is not a russian SoI, nor Czech Republic, simply because Russia has hardly any supporters here, mostly because of russian arrogrant policy in post-1989 years. Sympathy for Russia in poland is lower than in 1989. In Ukraine, for the first time in history polls show that majority of population doesn't trust Russia (something like 53:37, don't remember, exactly). If Russia tried to exert political influence by diplomatic means, it would have been more successful. More effective, but less spectacular. And Russia treats foreign policy as a means of controling internal one, just like Kaczynski brothers in Poland. More quarrels abroad = "we are defending Mother Russia against traitorous Ukrainians / perfidious Poles / nazi Georgians.

There is a difference between the current extent of the Russian "sphere of influence" and the "ideal extent" of it.

It's clear that Russia is clearly trying to infiltrate countries in the West. Just few days ago, Czech civilian secret service (BIS - Bezpecnostni Informacni Sluzba or Security Information Service) published a report with warning that the activity of Russian secret services skyrocketed in the Czech Republic and that they're using Russian businessmen and emigrants to gather sensitive information and that they're trying to incite public opinion against the U.S. missile defence by funding anti-American pressure groups and their campaigns and certain media. Knowing what kind of idiots run the most prominent "No-Bases Inititative" (one of their leaders is a self-proclaimed Stalinist - no kidding), I find it entirely possible.

Podle BIS se v případě ruských aktivních opatření vůči ČR a jejím spojencům jednalo o možnou součást širší a dlouhodobé ruské kampaně, jejímž cílem je narušit integritu EU a NATO, izolovat USA (resp. povzbudit izolacionistické nálady v USA) a obnovit kontrolu nad ztraceným sovětským bezpečnostním perimetrem v Evropě, a to bez ohledu na výsledek vyjednávání o možnosti vybudování protiraketového radaru v ČR.

Source

Rough translation (you'll have to wait for the official English translation which will be available in a matter of weeks, I think):

According to BIS, these Russian activities in Czech Republic and her allies are possibly a part of broader and long-term campaign which aims to undermine the integrity of EU and NATO, isolate the US (by means of encouraging isolationist tendencies in the US) and re-estabilish control over the lost Soviet security perimeter in Europe regardless of the final result of negotiations about the US missile defence system in Czech Republic.

Wake up and smell the reality, people.

 

[plarq]

No, Winner, we shouldn't ban pro-Russian movement, otherwise you become a Russia.

 

[Winner]

No, Winner, we shouldn't ban pro-Russian movement, otherwise you become a Russia.

Uhm, where am I saying we should?

On the other hand, it's funny how Russians always go up in flames when Western organizations (not even governments) dare to fund Russian NGOs known for extremelly hostile and subversive (/sarcasm) actions like calling for more democracy and monitoring human right abuses, but they pretend it's perfectly OK to bribe Western journalists, send spies into other countries to infiltrate their public domain and fund all kinds of extremists there. "It's not bad when we're doing it" Russian mentality I guess.

The best thing we can do is to publicly expose Russian agents and their subversive activities and thus discredit the organizations which are receiving money from Moscow.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I dislike this term sphere of influence.

It is really very 19th century. It implies that large countries have the right to dictate or veto the policy of smaller adjacent countries and it is therefore incompatable with modern thinking as encapsulated in the League of Nations and UN charters etc.

I much prefer to use the expression 'sphere of concern'.

For instance it is natural for countries to express an interest in what is going on in adjacent countries and express a viewpoint if that concerns them; and, if necessary,
take action, but only as a last resort.

For instance as an Englishman I regard Ireland as within the English field of concern,
and the Irish may regard what goes on in England as relevant to them.

Now if I hear that Iran is establishing an airbase in Eire, I will be concerned.

 

[WerBackIII]

Heaven forbid that a nation that was created by Russia likes Russia.

О.О

well I can give you a gun and I'll hope you can operate it.

Your other option is to open the damn wikipedia and see who created Bulgaria!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria

And yes, I'm a Russianfil, but your words hurt my soul... *damn it, there's no nice cry emoticon*

 

[Gelion]

I dislike this term sphere of influence.

It is really very 19th century. It implies that large countries have the right to dictate or veto the policy of smaller adjacent countries and it is therefore incompatable with modern thinking as encapsulated in the League of Nations and UN charters etc.

I much prefer to use the expression 'sphere of concern'.

For instance it is natural for countries to express an interest in what is going on in adjacent countries and express a viewpoint if that concerns them; and, if necessary,
take action, but only as a last resort.

For instance as an Englishman I regard Ireland as within the English field of concern,
and the Irish may regard what goes on in England as relevant to them.

Now if I hear that Iran is establishing an airbase in Eire, I will be concerned.

I applaud your POV.

 

[plarq]

To show deep concern is one thing, to act out is another.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Russia is still a world power, like it or not. Diplomacy, natural resources, science, nuclear weapons and cultural legacy are still world-scale factors contributing to Russia being a world power (a world power, not the world power like US). People in Russia in general just want to be left alone to do their business. That involves you (foreigners) and the government. Dreams of expansion are in the heads of hard-headed nationalists like in Poland or Germany.

What?

10 chars?

 

[Gelion]

What?

10 chars?

Expansion is a dream of nationalists.

10 char.

 

[classical_hero]

О.О

well I can give you a gun and I'll hope you can operate it.

Your other option is to open the damn wikipedia and see who created Bulgaria!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria

And yes, I'm a Russianfil, but your words hurt my soul... *damn it, there's no nice cry emoticon*

There is one. :cry:

Expansion is a dream of nationalists.

10 char.

That is a funny definition of a nationalist, it might be accurate for Russians, but I am very much an Australian nationalist and I hae no dream of expansion.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

How is this declaration different from any American declarations about their sphere of influence and their right to do things in or to other nations?

 

[Gelion]

That is a funny definition of a nationalist, it might be accurate for Russians, but I am very much an Australian nationalist and I hae no dream of expansion.

Might be having something to do with the fact that you have no meaningufdl (historical or cultural) place to expand? Nationalism was never about having colonies, but often about getting "our" land back.