Where in the Bible does it say masturbation is a sin anyway?

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I'm a Christian and I don't believe it's wrong. For a lot of singles, especially teenagers, it is a way to channel out all their lusts so they don't give into temptation. Masturbation is an unhealthy practice for the mind, but they certainly can help against greater temptations.

Oh please.

Don't be one of those silly people that choke up peoples' actions to stupid things like "temptation" and other posessions of the mind. Men - and women - are responsible for their actions. Don't make people out to be stupider than they are; you act like, if people didn't masturbate, they would go around raping people every time they got a boner.

 

[JollyRoger]

It's not giving in to temptation if it's an activity that you do. It's those other people that are the immoral degenerates.

 

[Tycoon101]

Oh please.

Don't be one of those silly people that choke up peoples' actions to stupid things like "temptation" and other posessions of the mind. Men - and women - are responsible for their actions. Don't make people out to be stupider than they are; you act like, if people didn't masturbate, they would go around raping people every time they got a boner.

Are you insinuating that I don't?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Are you insinuating that I don't?

Yes.

ten char

 

[warpus]

Close the thread, I figured it out

 

[Berzerker]

Did we really need to revive this thread?

Basically, you fail at the Bible.

You started it, dont gripe at me

The verse isn't "man shall not lie with man and woman." It's "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman."

How does a man lie with a man as he lies with a woman? Is that limited to the man on top since the man on bottom aint lying with a man as he lies with a woman? Explain the difference between man shall not lie with man and woman and what you just said.

There's no logical problem here, because you misremembered the verse.

I know the verse just fine, it tells men not to lie with men as they lie with women - thats about bi-sexual men, not men who dont lie with women or women who lie with women.

As for the lesbians, I think it could easily be extrapolated from that verse that homosexual sex was wrong - but even if it weren't, I think that's sufficiently covered by Romans 1. (Read it if you don't know the verse that I'm talking about. It should be required reading before posting in this type of thread)

If it was about homosexual sex it would have said women shall not lie with women and men shall not lie with men. It dont say that... Its targeting a group of men, those men who lie with men and women. As for Romans, we're dealing with an OT prohibition - Paul's opinion is irrelevant.

What? Maybe I'm just tired....but this whole paragraph seems nonsensical. What exactly are you talking about?

You never saw There's Something About Mary? Ben Stiller's buddy doesn't want him to bang Mary so he convinces Stiller to masturbate before their date and the argument he gives Stiller mirrors what you said about being unclean until orgasm. After a man has sex he's no longer thinking about sex - thats when a man is at his most honest with a woman, or with God/Temple/Sacred Duties. God dont want horny priests running around doing their duties

 

[Ecofarm]

Some guy spilled his seed on the ground and god killed him for it.

An obvious reference to genetically modified crops.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Did we really need to revive this thread?

Yes we did:

Close the thread, I figured it out

 

[scy12]

An obvious reference to genetically modified crops.

Wouldn't in that example be natural crops ? It didn't mention the man using any chemicals to empower the seed throwing capabilities that would affect the seeds in any way.

 

[Ecofarm]

Wouldn't in that example be natural crops ? It didn't mention the man using any chemicals to empower the seed throwing capabilities that would affect the seeds in any way.

It is not truely "man's seed" until we splice genes from different species and even kingdoms to create it. That represents work significantly different than traditional breeding/selection and a step outside of "god's natural order". GMCs are not the spawn of "god", but that of man.

Want to see my most intellectually dishonest diatribe? Watch me discuss GMCs with a fundie. It's not ID because GMCs are actually harmless (they are wretched things that foul the earth in very real ways, in fact), but because I pretend that ooga-booga is a reasonable foundation for resistance. Hey, one must cultivate allies wherever possible :/

 

[Elrohir]

You started it, dont gripe at me

I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your post, because it's about homosexuality. This thread is about masturbation - they're kind of a little different. If you want to start a new thread to spread your incorrect views, I'll be happy to debunk them. But I'm not going to hijack a thread that should have been dead a long time ago, with a discussion that isn't relevant to the topic.

So either start a new thread, or just take my word for it that you're wrong. (Or, pretend like you know what Christian and Jewish Scripture say better than Christian and Jewish religious authorities going back millenia - that's cool too, I guess)

 

[classical_hero]

We need to get a grasp of this thread, it has been too long for this thread for it to be up again.

 

[silver 2039]

Close the thread, I figured it out

Pure win.

 

[El_Machinae]

Its the story of Onan, see below.

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/monanism.html

"Judah got a wife for Er, his first-born; her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah's first born, was displeasing to the Lord and the Lord took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, "Join with your brother's wife and do your duty by her as a brother-in-law, and provide offspring for your brother." But Onan, knowing that the seed would not count as his, let it go to waste whenever he joined with his brother's wife, so as not to provide offspring for his brother. What he did was displeasing to the Lord, and He took his life also."

And the only reason I know is because I asked someone why Harry masturbated in a pot on The Tudors. So dont think I'm an advocate of the above or some kind of biblical scholar.

I think that forcing a man to have sex with a woman, on threat of death, is sick.

 

[Berzerker]

I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your post, because it's about homosexuality. This thread is about masturbation - they're kind of a little different. If you want to start a new thread to spread your incorrect views, I'll be happy to debunk them. But I'm not going to hijack a thread that should have been dead a long time ago, with a discussion that isn't relevant to the topic.

So either start a new thread, or just take my word for it that you're wrong. (Or, pretend like you know what Christian and Jewish Scripture say better than Christian and Jewish religious authorities going back millenia - that's cool too, I guess)

Geez, YOU were the one who brought homosexuality up, not me. And you need to explain why a prohibition on homosexuality did not include women and instead referred specifically to men who have sex with men and women. So what do OT experts say those words mean? If you can't defend your interpretation, let them defend it for you if they're in agreement.

 

[Elrohir]

I think that forcing a man to have sex with a woman, on threat of death, is sick.

He could have chosen to not have sex with her. (Though he was obligated to provide for her, as Jewish law made her part of his family)

Geez, YOU were the one who brought homosexuality up, not me. And you need to explain why a prohibition on homosexuality did not include women and instead referred specifically to men who have sex with men and women. So what do OT experts say those words mean? If you can't defend your interpretation, let them defend it for you if they're in agreement.

I mentioned it in passing - along with incest, and bestiality. (Which, I noticed, you didn't challenge as A-OK) My point was that the Bible isn't especially squeamish when it comes to saying what's right and wrong, and that if Moses wasn't too embarrassed to talk about having sex with family members or cattle, then I find it unlikely that he left out an important bit of moral guidance (That masturbation is immoral) out of squeamishness. To be blunt, because there's no scripture explicitly saying that it's wrong, the burden is on the "it is a sin" side to explain why it wasn't explicitly condemned. And they have not done that to my satisfaction.

I'm not going to respond to your questions about female homosexuality or bisexuality. As I said - if you want my opinion on this, then start a new thread, and I'll be happy to give it to you there. But I won't contribute to hijacking this thread. If you're genuinely curious, start a new thread. If you really don't care at all, then don't. But this isn't the place to continue this line of discussion.

 

[Berzerker]

I mentioned it in passing - along with incest, and bestiality. (Which, I noticed, you didn't challenge as A-OK) My point was that the Bible isn't especially squeamish when it comes to saying what's right and wrong, and that if Moses wasn't too embarrassed to talk about having sex with family members or cattle, then I find it unlikely that he left out an important bit of moral guidance (That masturbation is immoral) out of squeamishness. To be blunt, because there's no scripture explicitly saying that it's wrong, the burden is on the "it is a sin" side to explain why it wasn't explicitly condemned. And they have not done that to my satisfaction.

Just as the burden is on you

I'm not going to respond to your questions about female homosexuality or bisexuality. As I said - if you want my opinion on this, then start a new thread, and I'll be happy to give it to you there. But I won't contribute to hijacking this thread. If you're genuinely curious, start a new thread. If you really don't care at all, then don't. But this isn't the place to continue this line of discussion.

You already gave your opinion, I'm just challenging it. We dont need a new thread, this is definitely related to the subject at hand and I sure dont wanna start a thread to discuss a subject you brought up and wont defend. What does the OT (Lev) passage say in Hebrew and what is our best translation? Thats the least you can do since you said the Bible explicitly condemns homosexuality.

Do we have evidence from the archaeological record for either translation/interpretation being enforced? That would be a tough one to show, punishing a bi-sexual male for having sex with a man when in fact he's being punished for having sex with a woman too would be confusing enough without 2-3 millennium gone by. I just dont see how a condemnation of men who lie with men as they lie with women actually refers to women (lesbians) or men who lie with only men. Wouldn't the authors just say man shall not lie with man and woman shall not lie with woman?

 

[Onionsoilder]

Masturbation is an unhealthy practice for the mind

Hardly. It reduces stress which is bad for both the mind and body, as well as releasing certain hormones that boost mental activity. In addition, it reduced the chance of getting prostate cancer.

 

[Elrohir]

Berzerker, for the final time: I won't respond to your questions here, as this is entirely the wrong thread to discuss it in. If you'd like me to open a new thread because you're too shy or something yourself, then I will do so. But you're not going to get your answers here, because this isn't the right place. If you really want to know why I hold my position, open a new thread, or politely ask for me to do so. Otherwise, drop the subject entirely.

This will be my last post in this topic, as arguing over what's a threadjack is just as bad as threadjacking itself.

 

[civ_king]

What if u have 30 brothers and they all die with out heir after marrying?
thats a lot of kids to make