Which FfH leader would run the most/least pleasent empire to live in?

[TheJopa]

Of course, this quote wasn't really about birds, but types of people with different views on war.

As far as I know dove and hawk lobby are names for US political instruments that influence US politics in or out of war? (Perhaps someone from US could explain it better)

 

[zxcvbnm]

Elohim are doves and Bannor are hawks.

 

[merciary]

A dove is implying that the person it's describing sees war as an absolute last resort or won't ever consider it at all.

A hawk is one who "itches" for fighting or sees it as a diplomatic tool and are willing to use it.

 

[das]

Conventionally speaking, the Kuriotates seem like the nicest civilisation to live in, being decidedly benevolent and at the same time well-balanced. That said, it might easily come across as rather dull and/or complacent. With that in mind, the Bannor, the Amurites and the Luchuirp all seem fairly good in their own way.

As to the worst, well, conventional wisdom obviously implies the Infernals. The "disadvantages" of living under the Balseraphs have been aptly pointed out earlier in the thread, but as seen in Beeri Bawl's story, there is at least some chance of escaping it if you are lucky.

And speaking of Beeri Bawl, a somewhat recent game has shown me a more unusual "least pleasant empire" - an evil, militaristic, aggressive empire of the Ashen Veil-worshiping Luchuirp. Given the connotations of insanity inherent in Ashen Veil, you get a powerful, expanding empire led by satanist midget mad scientist mages. Pretty scary when you consider it. The Dwarven fondness for booze makes this potentially even scarier.

 

[evanb]

satanist midget mad scientist mages.

Why ever wouldn't you want to live there?

 

[wilboman]

Not to mention the fact that the Luichurp ruler/priest class can get by with a lot fewer Luichurp underlings, since they have the golems. More people to sacrifice, in the name of science.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

The gods are not all equal in power, you've said that Agares was the greatest. Personally I also feel that Junil is the weakest of the gods; law and justice are such abstract things to be in command of, after all. The real problem is that the true power of his "aspect" so to speak can only be manifested through mortal followers, and I'd imagine that in the Age of Dragons, he really had to co-operate with mortal heroes to help him face off against the evil gods. Hence, I find it difficult that Sabethiel would so easily abondon the Bannor. That would leave Junil completely castrated in terms of influance on Erebus, totally powerless to fight against any evil.

Hey - after all that, I still stand by my opinion that the Grigori are the best, because there is little reason for anyone to bring war against them. It also feels more human, with their emphasis on material well-being and freedom FROM religion, if it's Erebus-style religions we're talking about.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

As far as I know, Cerueneous is the weakest of the gods, because he is not a true god. Junil has the most widespread worship, making him one of the strongest.

 

[Zeviz]

Rather than just listing best and worst, let's look at what the life is like in different civilizations

Most likely to feed you - Elhoim
Most likely to feed on you - Calabim
Most likely to feed you to a pet - Swaltafar
Most likely to give you a pet (animal companion) - Lojafar
Most likely to make you a pet - Balseraph
Most likely to make you target practice for pet demon - Sheaim
Most likely to protect you from a pet demon - Bannor
Most likely to protect a pet demon from you - Amurites
Most likely to make you a mechanical slave - Luchirp
Most likely to make you a slave - Lanun (Under OO)
Most likely to sell you - Hippus
Most likely to sell you well crafted swords - Khazad
Most likely to kill you with swords - Doviello
Most likely to kill you with claws - Clan
Most likely to offer you a claw of friendship - Kuriotates
Most likely to offer you a flask of friendship - Malakim
Most likely to ignore you - Sidar

That should cover all of them.

As for actual answer, tree cities of elves sound nice, but humans would be out of place there, so I'd chose an Amurite university instead. The worst place to live as a regular person would be Calabim empire (where you are just cattle), and the worst place to live as a nobleman would be Balseraph empire (where important people are more likely to draw the attention of mad ruler).

 

[wilboman]

Amurite Universities suck pretty hard. If the exams don't kill you, your colleagues might. And if they don't kill you, you can look forward to earning your stripes as a battle mage for a few years.

 

[Ur_Vile_Wedge]

I don't think that a Gods worship affects his/hers/its inherent power, only the ability to manifest themselves and their effects on Erebus.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Earlier posts by Kael seemed to imply that it was, but he has made clear lately that it does not effect their power. I think he said that it does not even effect his ability to act in Erebus exactly, only that a followers cannot channel their gods power beyond the level of their faith. The Compact is a labyrinthine codex of regulations on their actions, which doesn't often allow them to act directly, and rations the amount of influence they do have (they can use all their power at once for a single large action, or perform many minor miracles)

Cernunnos is still the weakest of the gods though, since he was the only one not created by The One (I originally thought that all the true angels were created by the One, but Kael's post seemed to imply that he just made the 21 main gods and gave them the power to create their lesser angels, even archangels). Also, the original god of his sphere, Succellus, was perhaps the weakest of the gods anyways before he was defeated by Mulcarn (at least Basium thought so). Junil had the most followers and was the eldest of the gods, so he is inherently powerful and has the most disciples who are able to channel him and use his power to change creation.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Why would you want to live in an elven empire? Sure, you would not be so "out of place", if they accept you. No supernatural calamities, but you'd be living in poverty, as I would imagine elves need a lot less than humans to live on. You'd be very lacking in human comforts. But that's when the two factions are at peace. When they are at war, it would be like the ethnic cleansing by child soldiers, like in Africa, except a lot worse. Better than living as Calabim food, but I'd still prefer a human empire

For whoever mentioned the Amurites: I'd imagine it will be a very unsafe place to live in. Law enforcement would at least be a nightmare.

*****

Wait - if the number of worshipppers and the strength of their faith does not have any effect on the powers of the angels, then why would the angels try to gain more worshippers, and to have the worshippers become more devout?

More specific: if your rival has more inherent power than you, then how would gaining more worshippers to fight for you help you at all? If I'm strong then obviously having more worshippers means I have more freedom to use my powers to shape Erebus into what I desire, but if I don't have enough goodies to spread amongst the worshippers I already have, would I want even more people praying (begging) for goodies? I would think not, but it seems that all the angels are always eager for more people to worship him/her, for whatever reason.

Or perhaps, and here's what I'm thinking: if I spend my powers strategically, then my worshippers will be more effective at overpowering yours... like a giant game of Civ. Did Kael intend us to BE one of the angels leading a civilization?

 

[xienwolf]

I am pretty sure that the people themselves are able to perform acts based on how strong their own faith is (without using the power of the god they worship). Thus if you convince them to follow your true ideals & goals they will use their own power instead of you having to use up what you are capable of.

Thus a weak god with many followers who are well aligned to his ideals can accomplish much more than a strong god with no followers who does everything himself, he just doesn't do it himself.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Wait - if the number of worshipppers and the strength of their faith does not have any effect on the powers of the angels, then why would the angels try to gain more worshippers, and to have the worshippers become more devout?

Some don't care, like Arwan.
For some, having worshipers might be a different way to express there power. Our gods are not omniscient, and having sentient beings running around with your same goals would be very helpful.
Also, it would keep those mortals from working at cross purposes to you. Even if you don't give them power, men (and like races) have their own abilities to effect creation, so having them on your team rather than your foes would be important.
For many though, this is an end in itself and not a means. Agares want to corrupt the world. Followers of Agares, cruel and selfish men following him are a sign to the One that his universe is flawed, and he should return the god's full powers--or at least not hold their own flaws against them.

 

[DharmaMcLaren]

I meant if I was an elf, I'd like to live in an elven empire. I mean, if we're going to imagine we can live in Erebus, why not imagine we can also be whatever race we want?

 

[Ekolite]

Maybe there should be a new thread? If you were in erebus, what would you want to be?

Being a vampire would be pretty cool, or maybe an influencial priest of the Order in a corrupted Bannor empire. (where the priests do what they like and ignore sabathiel)

 

[DharmaMcLaren]

I'd just want to be a scholar or... what exactly do elves do? I guess it would be cool to be a simple priest of leaves or maybe a druid...

 

[Cuteunit]

You guys are missing how great the Sidar are. If you have the mental fortitude to face eternity, you have unlimited potential to be exactly what you want to be. Your worst problem would be getting bored.

People have such a grim outlook on sidar because of the word Shade.

Imagine a world were Mozart and Bethoven never died, where Michaelangelo was still painting ceilings, where Einstein was still kicking it. Hell, where Isaac Newton still held his chair.

What a fantastic place to live it would be if the great people never had to leave us. A place where knowledge did not constantly need to be re-learned from scratch with every generation for fear of it's loss forever. There's no limit to what immortality could do for humanity's social state. Imagine attending a political lecture by George Washington himself ffs. How can your imagination not be set on fire with all the possibilities for wonder?

 

[DharmaMcLaren]

But it would get very depressing when you ran out of things to do. The eventual fate of the Sidar could be mass suicide, because it was the only thing they hadn't tried yet. Of course, if they survive the Age of Rebirth and the next age, they'll probably invent quantum computers and nanotechnology etc. until they're practically omniscient and omnipotent, and transcend their biological forms. And then they can spend eternity in endless simulations of new worlds until they get bored of each one, and move on to a new one, never having to fear harm.

So yeah, it could be really good or really bad.