Which Polynesian civ?

[Patine]

You must be Canadian, right?
I guess Firaxis wanted to honor the modder TPangolin, who is Australian. He created an Australia mod with John Curtin as the leader. Here's a link. Plus Civ has a decently large fanbase in Australia. I know Canada has one too.....

There are civ players from Argentina - I've met a couple online. I've never an official Argentina civ. Also, it would surprise me greatly if the Australian civ community was significantly larger, or even larger at all, than the Canadian one...

 

[Guandao]

There are civ players from Argentina - I've met a couple online. I've never an official Argentina civ. Also, it would surprise me greatly if the Australian civ community was significantly larger, or even larger at all, than the Canadian one...

I'm also betting TSL Earth maps featured in Firaxis' reasoning to create an Australian Civ.

 

[conorbebe]

There's no chance of getting two Polynesian Civs (ex: Maori and Hawaii) for Civ6. Heck, I'm not even sure we'll get one Polynesian Civ this time. Australia has seem to replace them (at least geographic wise, while Civ6's Indonesia has taken a potential ability for them). I'm not too hopeful about this.

Australia is as much of a replacement for Polynesia as Brazil is a replacement for the Inca.

 

[Guandao]

Australia is as much of a replacement for Polynesia as Brazil is a replacement for the Inca.

Yes, I agree with you. But this is Firaxis we're talking about. I'm not expecting that many more Civs than what Civ5 had (43). Others have said maybe there will be 50 at most.

 

[Patine]

Australia is as much of a replacement for Polynesia as Brazil is a replacement for the Inca.

I would far prefer the Inca. I find them very fascinating, and have actually read about them quite a bit. Many people with casual historical knowledge seem to view them, the Muisca, the Nazca, and the Titihuanaca as just "more southerly Mesoamerican cultures and civilizations," but all four are VERY different than any civilization or culture in Mesoamerica.

 

[conorbebe]

Yes, I agree with you. But this is Firaxis we're talking about. I'm not expecting that many more Civs than what Civ5 had (43). Others have said maybe there will be 50 at most.

I'm holding out hope that we'll see more. Firaxis' choice to include Nubia and Macedon gives me some confidence.

 

[Guandao]

I'm holding out hope that we'll see more. Firaxis' choice to include Nubia and Macedon gives me some confidence.

I'm not a big fan of Macedon as a separate Civ from Greece, but I agree with your sentiment.

 

[Zaarin]

I'm not a big fan of Macedon as a separate Civ from Greece, but I agree with your sentiment.

I love the idea. I just hate Alexander. But if we can balkanize the Balkans, let's balkanize all the things.

 

[Morningcalm]

Wow, I'm surprised at how huge the Maori lead is in the poll--that being said, perhaps the Maori are more iconic warriors in the popular imagination than Hawaiian warriors. Perhaps partly because of their amazing tattoos and carved items. (Their cameo in the Cloud Atlas movie probably helped too.)

It would be awesome if there was a Polynesian exploration/culture/military scenario ala the one in Civ V. Civ VI as a whole lacks much scenario content beyond that in the DLCs.

 

[Guandao]

I love the idea. I just hate Alexander. But if we can balkanize the Balkans, let's balkanize all the things.

I would prefer a non-Hellenic Civ from the Balkans instead, like Bulgaria, Romania or Serbia.

 

[Patine]

I love the idea. I just hate Alexander. But if we can balkanize the Balkans, let's balkanize all the things.

I had the idea of Seleucus and Ptolemy (or even Ptolemy's direct descendent, Cleopatra, in her proper role) as Macedonian-originated leader who hybrid or "alloy" some features from one or several other types of civ into a semi-gestalt (Levantine, Mesopotamian, Armenian, Persian, and Northern Indian for Seleucus, and Egyptian for Ptolemy or Cleopatra, mixed with Greek/Macedonian/Hellenistic), but I recall the idea was unpopular when I suggested it.

 

[Patine]

Wow, I'm surprised at how huge the Maori lead is in the poll--that being said, perhaps the Maori are more iconic warriors in the popular imagination than Hawaiian warriors. Perhaps partly because of their amazing tattoos and carved items. (Their cameo in the Cloud Atlas movie probably helped too.)

It would be awesome if there was a Polynesian exploration/culture/military scenario ala the one in Civ V. Civ VI as a whole lacks much scenario content beyond that in the DLCs.

Except, Samoan and Tahitian warriors were the first to wear such tattoos - the Maoris just adopted them by cultural exchange.

 

[Zaarin]

I would prefer a non-Hellenic Civ from the Balkans instead, like Bulgaria, Romania or Serbia.

I would like no more Balkan civs, Hellenic, Slavic, Albanian, or Romance. (Well, I guess the original Bulgars were Turkic, but...).

I had the idea of Seleucus and Ptolemy (or even Ptolemy's direct descendent, Cleopatra, in her proper role) as Macedonian-originated leader who hybrid or "alloy" some features from one or several other types of civ into a semi-gestalt (Levantine, Mesopotamian, Armenian, Persian, and Northern Indian for Seleucus, and Egyptian for Ptolemy or Cleopatra, mixed with Greek/Macedonian/Hellenistic), but I recall the idea was unpopular when I suggested it.

Chiefly I want to balkanize England (Anglo-Saxons!), France (Brittany, Normandy), and India (Chola, Sri Lanka).

 

[Morningcalm]

Except, Samoan and Tahitian warriors were the first to wear such tattoos - the Maoris just adopted them by cultural exchange.

Well, those particular named Polynesian groups certainly had many similarities by virtue of their geographic location, so that isn't too surprising. Still, the Maori are quite iconic, helped in part by popular culture (all my Canadian friends somehow know and love the movie Whale Rider).

 

[Guandao]

I would like no more Balkan civs, Hellenic, Slavic, Albanian, or Romance. (Well, I guess the original Bulgars were Turkic, but...).


Chiefly I want to balkanize England (Anglo-Saxons!), France (Brittany, Normandy), and India (Chola, Sri Lanka).

Why not have more Balkan Civs?

I don't find Brittany or Normandy too interesting to be honest (won't their leaders speak some form of French?). Anglo-Saxons are cool, but I think they won't be added to the game for obvious reasons. I like the idea of a Chola or Sri Lankan Civ though.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I would definitely want Bulgaria in this game asap, but that's largely because i'm half Bulgarian ^__^ and I go on holiday there like... once every two years or so.

 

[Patine]

Why not have more Balkan Civs?

I don't find Brittany or Normandy too interesting to be honest (won't their leaders speak some form of French?). Anglo-Saxons are cool, but I think they won't be added to the game for obvious reasons. I like the idea of a Chola or Sri Lankan Civ though.

Normans spoke French, though a very distinct dialect in the day heavily influenced by the Viking raiders (Northmen, or "Normans," in fact) who conquered that coastal tract of land in the 9th Century and forced the Kings of West Francia (later, after Hugh Capet's election, Kings of France), to recognize them as Counts, and later Dukes, of Normandy, but with great autonomy. The Bretons were Celts closely related to the Cornish and, less closely, to the Welsh and Cumbrians (distantly to the Gaels and Manx) and usually only spoke French on record when dealing with French (or English) royalty, nobility, and churchmen, and otherwise spoke Breton in most aspects of life up until the 16th, or even 17th, Centuries.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm not a big fan of Macedon as a separate Civ from Greece, but I agree with your sentiment.

I love the idea. I just hate Alexander. But if we can balkanize the Balkans, let's balkanize all the things.

Speak for yourselves. I love Alexandrianizing the world.
Btw why is keep it "Polynesia" in second place?

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Speak for yourselves. I love Alexandrianizing the world.
Btw why is keep it "Polynesia" in second place?

Probably because they think it's the best chance of getting both Maori and Hawaiian representation in a "Greece" like civ. The fact is that Polynesian cultures are all extremely similar from a military/trade/architectural/religious perspective; we can probably split out unique leaders and units, but aside from that how do you make one sea exploring, trade-based, polytheistic/animistic civ different from another? The great thing about leaders is you don't have to; you have a base civ concept for similar civs, and then using different leaders you only need to make half of a unique civ. It's like leaders are effectively clones of each other, and I really, really like the way it opens up design space for civs that are culturally distinct but mechanically similar.

By the way, I still haven't voted. If there was a "Maori and Hawaii" option I would vote for that but I don't want to pick "Other" and void the point of the poll which is picking a single frontrunner. If I had to pick just one, it would either be Maori based on population or Tonga based on historical significance; I can't decide between the two. And in either case I would still greatly miss Kamehameha.

It's a relevant poll but a cruel one, forcing us to deal with the inevitable reality of disappointment.

 

[Greywulf]

I think the most interesting thing about a Polynesian civ, from a gameplay perspective, would be the ability to settle small islands, so that would absolutely need to be a feature of any civ they included - which probably steers them away from the Maori in particular. Hawai'i or Tonga would be my picks.

That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't want to give up the wayfinding ability, so I think that the Polynesian kingdom that is chosen should be one that was more focused on wayfinding.

Does Fiji count as a Melanesian Civ?
I've had enormous trouble in locating historical Papuan leaders. It's understandable given how divided linguistically they were. Contact with Westerners were pretty infrequent until the 20th century.

Fiji is in Melanesia, but it is very close to Polynesia, and they interacted a lot with Polynesians. The Tongans even conquered them for a time.