Which Polynesian civ?

[Slan]

I really enjoy this civ idea, the atoll ability would be really fun to play with.

I feel Maori would be a terrible mistake as you would lose the features that made Polynesia in civ 5 so unique. Although Maori they did travel to New Zealand by sea but this would of been pre Maori Polynesian culture not Maori culture.

and once settled in New Zealand the Maori didn't do much island hoping themselves and were a lot more terrestrial minded then the rest of the Polynesian cultures.
Also Maori would be another indigenous civ which is based around ancient/classical tech which is militaristic, this I really don't like ( and feel civ devs also tend to stay away from).

back to the Tonga civ idea, I would like to suggest a UI/LUA that also increases loyalty. Because in terms of gameplay this will be a serious issue for such a expansive civ. this could maybe be a meeting house eg Marae which would be a replacement for a monument but add extra loyalty based on trade routes to the city.

I loved Polynesia in civ 5 and would love a civ that would represent this culture in civ 6

 

[Greywulf]

Looks great to me; exactly what I'd want in a Polynesian civ -- and Tonga is a great choice as a single representative of de-blobbed Polynesia.

As a purely cosmetic change, I've flipped through a few articles on Tongan monarchs and it seems like there are better leaders than Momo available (although I'd keep the same agenda and LUA regardless of who was chosen). Momo's major claims to fame seem to be forcing his people to shuffle around on their asses in his presence (so they wouldn't be taller than him), and forcing a lesser nobleman to divorce his wife so that Momo could marry her -- the event which his LUA "Fena kā ko Nua" is currently named after. By contrast, his son Tuʻi-tā-tui seems to have no shortage of more prestigious, kingly tales about himself -- crushing a rebellion in Samoa, expanding the size and prestige of the royal compound, owning a beloved, semi-divine pet turtle (how about "Shell of Sāngone" as the name of his LUA?), and reforming the court so that the kingship became a more powerful position, elevated much higher above the lesser chiefs than it had been before. I love Queen Salote as well, but given the era she lived in (long after the great Tongan voyages of discovery and colonisation of new islands, which is what the current LUA represents), she would probably turn into a Robert the Bruce-type of leader with her own specific LUA that probably wouldn't synergise with the rest of the civ design -- and our vision for an ocean-sprawling Tonga requires a huge amount of synergy between all the different unique features in order for it to work. And then there's ʻAhoʻeitu, who seems to be the most significant and lasting national hero among the Tongan kings. Gilgamesh proves that semi-legendary figures are fair game for Civ 6, and if I were to guess who the devs would pick if they were to create a Tongan civ, my money would be on ʻAhoʻeitu.

To be fair though, Momo might make for an interesting AI personality to meet in-game, albeit a fairly pompous and unlikable one. Either way, I think the current list of unique features is pretty much perfect, and the LUA and agenda should stay the same no matter which leader gets picked to represent the civ.

Edited in Tuʻi-tā-tui and renamed the ability.

What do you think of a loyalty bonus?

I really enjoy this civ idea, the atoll ability would be really fun to play with.

I feel Maori would be a terrible mistake as you would lose the features that made Polynesia in civ 5 so unique. Although Maori they did travel to New Zealand by sea but this would of been pre Maori Polynesian culture not Maori culture.

and once settled in New Zealand the Maori didn't do much island hoping themselves and were a lot more terrestrial minded then the rest of the Polynesian cultures.
Also Maori would be another indigenous civ which is based around ancient/classical tech which is militaristic, this I really don't like ( and feel civ devs also tend to stay away from).

back to the Tonga civ idea, I would like to suggest a UI/LUA that also increases loyalty. Because in terms of gameplay this will be a serious issue for such a expansive civ. this could maybe be a meeting house eg Marae which would be a replacement for a monument but add extra loyalty based on trade routes to the city.

I loved Polynesia in civ 5 and would love a civ that would represent this culture in civ 6

I like the idea of a loyalty bonus as well, and this it would be important. We just have to work out the best way to fit it in...Would replacing the amphitheater work? Because we could potentially add a loyalty bonus to their UI Fale Tele.

 

[humble serf]

@Slan : The Fale Tele is the Tongan term for what the Maori call a Wharenui, which is the building at the head of a Marae, so it looks like we're on the same page there.

Currently I don't think the Fale Tele is a particularly OP building, and could easily be given an additional bonus (ie. loyalty). I was considering giving it a loyalty bonus yesterday, but I figured most cities in the middle of the ocean wouldn't suffer loyalty pressure since they'd be so far away from the cities of other civilisations (I'm actually not totally sure if that's how loyalty works, I've only played like 2 games of R&F). In hindsight, though, it seems like wishful thinking to expect Polynesia to find an endless supply of small islands to settle in the middle of the ocean, and in most games they would probably end up settling at least a few cities along the coastline, or on islands that are only slightly offshore.

On the other hand, there are already enough sources of loyalty that players rarely seem to struggle with it. Maybe we could give Polynesia something that's a little harder to achieve than just immediate free loyalty -- maybe the Fale Tele provides +2 loyalty when one of its Great Work of Writing slots is filled, and another +2 when they're both filled?

 

[Greywulf]

@Slan : The Fale Tele is the Tongan term for what the Maori call a Wharenui, which is the building at the head of a Marae, so it looks like we're on the same page there.

Currently I don't think the Fale Tele is a particularly OP building, and could easily be given an additional bonus (ie. loyalty). I was considering giving it a loyalty bonus yesterday, but I figured most cities in the middle of the ocean wouldn't suffer loyalty pressure since they'd be so far away from the cities of other civilisations (I'm actually not totally sure if that's how loyalty works, I've only played like 2 games of R&F). In hindsight, though, it seems like wishful thinking to expect Polynesia to find an endless supply of small islands to settle in the middle of the ocean, and in most games they would probably end up settling at least a few cities along the coastline, or on islands that are only slightly offshore.

On the other hand, there are already enough sources of loyalty that players rarely seem to struggle with it. Maybe we could give Polynesia something that's a little harder to achieve than just immediate free loyalty -- maybe the Fale Tele provides +2 loyalty when one of its Great Work of Writing slots is filled, and another +2 when they're both filled?

Very nice! For now I'll put that into it, and see how that looks...