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Which Polynesian civ?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Greywulf, Feb 3, 2018.

?

Which Polynesian civ?

  1. Tonga

    10 vote(s)
    19.6%
  2. Samoa

    2 vote(s)
    3.9%
  3. Hawaii

    9 vote(s)
    17.6%
  4. Maori (New Zealand)

    26 vote(s)
    51.0%
  5. Other (please share)

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%
  6. Keep it "Polynesia"

    3 vote(s)
    5.9%
  7. Hiva (Marquesas Islands)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    Absolutely!
     
  2. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

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    It's just such a dumb, out of touch improvement. What it honestly feels like is an attempt by Civ to advertise on the behalf of Chile as "the new tourist destination." Or that some college-age developer wanted to commemorate that backpacking vacation they took to Chile in their gap year because it was the only place they could afford to travel to. Either way, I don't find it a flattering depiction of the Mapuche, nor an accurate depiction of the tourism industry.
     
  3. Patine

    Patine Chieftain

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    The Mapuche chemamull seem to be more in line, in truth, in terms of original purpose and modern viewpoint as the old Turkic and Mongol kurgans, to be honest, and probably even less known-about globally.
     
  4. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

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    Oh indisputably so. Or the stelae of Aksum.

    I'm fine with the kurgans generating faith and gold. For one, a nomadic civ wouldn't have science, or production, or agriculture, or amenities, or even "culture" so you're already limited in the benefits you can realistically give it. However they did have some sort of cultural identity unifying them, and in Civ this is "faith in the people you associate with," which is basically "faith." This also encourages an inferred interpretation of that the Scythian blob civ represents a larger kurgan culture unitied by "faith" in tribal blood ties which covered the Eurasian steppes. If nothing else can represent the Yamna and their offshoots, they still have kurgans to point at, more of a unifying ritual that the kazakhs were unwilling to abandon purely as a vestigial belief; the possibly sole feature of their culture that resembles a "religion" or "state authority" that provided structural and cultural unity. They are defined by the kurgan, the kurgan is defined by them. The gold part makes enough sense because metalworking and raiding.

    Actually, on the whole, if my crackpot theories are correct that Scythia was included as the broadest and oldest "structured" civ they could include to represent Yamna culture, I actually don't hate their inclusion like so many do. I would change a couple small things. Call them Kazakhs rather than Scythians. Make their identity focus less on one stupid Cyrus anecdote and more on their broader historic relevance. But otherwise they work really well as a PIE proxy.

    Of course, my theories are probably wrong, because apparently Firaxis developers think the Chemamull are tourist destinations and a flirting mechanic was worth adding into the game.

    The kurgan bonuses wouldn't work quite as well for the Chemamull since their culture wasn't as focused on raiding and metalworking, nor really represent a vast diversity of cultures unified under these gravestones. They were just gravestones. But since the Mapuche spent several long centuries unified under constant war, the gravestones serve more as monuments to military unity rather than as religious or even cultural unity. They should have granted military bonuses first and foremost. And then maybe secondarily culture bonuses as acknowledgement of the fact that the Mapuche were in many ways culturally defined by their military endeavors, and generally in constructive ways.
     
  5. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    How's this look?

    Tonga.


    King Momo of the Tongan Empire. (Alternatively: Sālote Tupou III of the Kingdom of Tonga)

    Leader ability: Fena kā ko Nua. Gains additional era score for discovering new islands/continents. Sea trade routes claim the first 3 water tiles on route to their city.

    Agenda: Tu'i Tonga. Likes civs who have open borders. Likes civs who settle on the mainland, but dislikes civs who settle neighboring islands.


    Civ Bonus: Wayfinding. All units can embark across ocean tiles from the start of the game.

    Unique Unit: Pôpao/Va'a (Outrigger canoe). Replaces the Scout. Travels swiftly across ocean tiles with additional line of sight.

    Unique Improvement: Tiki. Replaces the shrine. In addition to the shrine's abilities, generates culture and +1 tourism per 1 or 2 base faith from the district.


    Capital: Mu'a.

    Other cities: Nuku'alofa, Neiafu, Haveluoto, Vaini, Pangai, Ohonua, Angaha, Kolonga, Hihifo, Tafahi, Petani, Holonga, Apia, Ata, Falevai, Falaleu, Malapo, Nomuka, Fonoifua, Matuku, O'ua, Tungua, Vaipoa, Ovaka, Salega, Talau, Popua, Kotu, Tofua, Kao, Lotofoa, Lofanga, Uiha, Fakahiku, Alofi, Ha'afeva.

    Spy names: Lo'au, Kae, Longopoa, Sinialu, Fasi'apule, Toiukamae, Salote, Papiloa, Lolofonua, Sangone.

    Citizen names: (Male) Afah, Isileli, Kapo, Malohi, Tokoni, (Female) Kahoa, Lotu, Paame, Siale, Talanoa. (Male Modern) Anitelu, Falakiko, Lakepi, Ptolomeo, Sione, (Female Modern) Emeni, Kiupita, Langi, Musika, Safaia.

    Colors: Tan and red.

    Symbol: Sea turtle tattoo.


    Music:



    (With the help of this Civ V mod: http://civilization-v-customisation.wikia.com/wiki/Tonga_('Aho'eitu))

    ~ Feedback is welcome! ~
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  6. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

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    I...like it! Not too different from Polynesia to alienate V fans, but with a much more focused and resonant identity.

    Although be careful about whose copyrights you might be treading on when using example imagery and videos. :p
     
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  7. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    Nice Tonga idea (looks like a fun Civ V mod!). I really like the leaderhead visuals too--reminds me of how much I prefer Civ V's visual style to VI's. It's possible Firaxis may pull a dark horse on us as they've done with Rise and Fall, and put in Tonga instead of the Maori. But I think the Maori could use a boost given their huge recognition and use only as unique units in V. I personally would prefer the Maori, but I'm biased since I grew up in New Zealand and fondly remember seeing Maori dances at museums in Auckland, and the visual marvels of the ancestral meeting houses there.
     
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  8. Phrozen

    Phrozen Chieftain

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    I would make the tikis ability that it generates tourism based on the adjacency bonus of the holy site.
     
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  9. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    So if there are adjacent bonuses, they grant tourism?
     
  10. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

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    I like the ideas, and personally they could go to about any other Polynesian Civ as well.
    As for the icon, I like the idea of using a tattoo I was thinking that a tiki mask would be better than a turtle. It seems a little similar to Nan Madol's icon. Maybe something like this instead:
    upload_2018-2-11_16-56-8.jpeg
    But I like the idea for a canoe and the UI although I don't know how you would be able to replace a scout, especially with the promotion line such as ranger and alpine. Maybe it can replace the galley and gain exp through exploration and be faster, but weaker in combat? That was mentioned by someone else as a possibility for Portugal's naval units but this ability could be just for the canoe.
     
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  11. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    I was researching a symbol, and turtle tattoo symbol seems to be a popular idea for Tonga, but I'm open for suggestions. That face tattoo looks cool, although perhaps more fitting for the Maori as a symbol? The Tongans used a lot of tattoos, but more so on their bodies than on their faces.

    What about the outrigger replaces the galley, but is available from the start of the game, and maybe they start with a free outrigger next to their settler rather than a free scout? But they should also be cheaper to build than the galley, and of course can move across ocean tiles. How would that sound?
     
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  12. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

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    Not sure if it would go on the face. It's just a tattoo of a face that would go on any part of the body and I thought it would go with the Tiki UI as well.
    Being able to build a canoe from the game would go great. Especially since you technically wouldn't need "sails" on the canoe to before you learn "sailing.":thumbsup:
     
  13. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    I don't think that traditional Tongan tattoos included faces on the body, even though their tattoos were often quite extensive.

    What if they have Sailing already from the start of the game? That would automatically mean that the outrigger (assuming it's replacing the galley) is available to build from the start of the game, and would make sense then if they already have one ready instead of a free scout unit...Of course, this would work best with their true start location functioning, but may not work so well if it were turned off...Not sure why one would turn it off for a Polynesian civ tho..
     
  14. Phrozen

    Phrozen Chieftain

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    1 tourism per 1 or 2 base faith from the district.
     
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  15. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    Ok, edited that idea in. Thank you for your contribution!
     
  16. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

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    Hey. HEY. Greywulf. I found a thing!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sālote_Tupou_III

    She's way better than Liliuokalani and on par with Te Atairangikaahu.

    I don't think this obviates Momo's importance, but I think every potential civ should be noted of when it has good male and female leaders; makes it easier to fit in with the devs' agenda.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  17. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Chieftain

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    Another strong, influential Polynesian civ with good male and female leaders choices, count me in! Looks like I'm going to be hoping for 3 Polynesian civs now!
     
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  18. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

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    Very nice! Good work finding this one!
    I'll list her as an alternative, as she does look like a good choice for them! Still, I am focusing on the Tu'i Tonga Empire, and she ruled after that. Also, Momo will have traditional Tongan dress... :)
     
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  19. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

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    Alternative seems just right to me! :thumbsup:
     
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  20. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

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    The more I think about it both Tonga and Maori would work out well. However after researching a bit, I would also like to take a stab and try making a Civ out of Samoa.

    Leader: Queen Salamasina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salamasina
    Agenda: Tafa'ifa- Likes to acquire tribal villages and not attack barbarians. Likes civilizations that avoid tribal villages and do not disturb barbarians.
    Leader Ability: Four Papa Titles- Gain a free land unit whenever you encounter a tribal village. May convert barbarians to your side by using a religious charge.
    Civ Abiltiy: Navigator Islands- Settlers may enter coastal tiles after researching sailing and ocean tiles after celestial navigation. Land Units may enter water tiles while in formation with a settler. Reefs provide +1 appeal to adjacent tiles.
    UU: Manu'a- Swordman replacement which unlocks at Miitary Training - Gains culture when receiving a promotion.
    UI: Fale- Built on coastal land tile. Provides housing, food, culture and tourism later through flight.
     
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