Which Side Are You On?

[Antilogic]

Salon seems to think this is the official start of the GOP civil war. #ohitson #yougotserved #oldnews

Republican consultant Liz Mair appeared on “Hardball” Monday night alongside Ann Coulter, with whom she disagreed vehemently about the conservative credentials of GOP — but no longer Iowa — front-runner Donald Trump.

Coulter insisted, as always, that “it’s all about immigration. It doesn’t really matter what a Republican’s position is on saving Social Security or how they’re going to reform Medicare. Americans are being outvoted by foreigners, and Americans have been begging their own party to shut it down, to stop this endless immigration for decades now.”

Trump is, she claimed, “the first one [in the GOP field] to actually take America’s side on immigration,” ...

Mair was having none of it, saying that “I think that’s a patently ludicrous notion. Most of the time, when we’ve been looking at ‘amnesty fights,’ they’ve actually been shut down by a set of groups that are funded by population-control enthusiast liberal who is actually involved with zero-population growth and the Sierra Club. ...”

Coulter noted that her ideal ticket consisted of Trump/Romney, which she characterized as “a dynamite combination.” ... but for Mair, “that is proof right there that [Coulter is] in no way conservative and in no way interested in conservative policy.”

Mair characterized Trump and his supporters as “liberals who just happen to hate Mexicans,” ...

Is Coulter correct? Is immigration the only issue that matters for determining who is on the right (in more ways than one) side of American politics? Or is Mair? Is Trump just a liberal who hates Mexicans? Is the dream team really Trump/Romney!?

People of CFC, I ask you:

So which side are you on?

Which side are you on?

 

[BvBPL]

The presumed civil war doesn't exist. This is pompous posturing on both sides. The GOP will resolve its issues in due time.


Link to video.


I'm the side with butter on it, I am.

 

[IglooDame]

I'm on whichever side spares the planet from a "President Trump".

That aside,

Is he a fiscal conservative?

Is he a social conservative?

And is being more strenuously anti-illegal immigration fiscally or socially conservative?

 

[Silurian]

Trump means fart in British slang

 

[Wolfbeckett]

They're both wrong. Practically the whole GOP are just liberals who hate minorities. Conservatives would want to shrink government spending, shrink government power, put more power back in the hands of the people and the local governments. The GOP doesn't want any of that, they want to spend just as much as the democrats, just on different things, and they want the federal government to be all powerful, just like the democrats, except with themselves in charge. Very few GOP members actually want to reduce our national debt, or slash our insane budget spending in any way, they just want to funnel more of the spending towards their friends in the defense industry instead of spending it on social programs.

 

[warpus]

I have no idea, but Salon are a bunch of idiots.

 

[Rashiminos]

The (con?)artist with a wig seems like a good boss.

The anti-Nixon comment was interesting. The "backside" insinuation, not so much.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

In my opinion the GOP has long since kicked out anyone with even the slightest shred of common sense or human decency. The "one tent, c'mon in" plan backfired, and the lunatics took over the tent and are in the process of burning it down. Who strikes the specific match that finally torches the place isn't really important to me.

 

[Rashiminos]

In my opinion the GOP has long since kicked out anyone with even the slightest shred of common sense or human decency. The "one tent, c'mon in" plan backfired, and the lunatics took over the tent and are in the process of burning it down. Who strikes the specific match that finally torches the place isn't really important to me.

That does superficially resemble the immigration argument they're having.

On second look, Liz Mair played a role in sinking the Walker campaign. She might have the experience we need here.

 

[EgonSpengler]

The GOP doesn't want any of that, they want to spend just as much as the democrats, just on different things, and they want the federal government to be all powerful, just like the democrats, except with themselves in charge.

In my opinion the GOP has long since kicked out anyone with even the slightest shred of common sense or human decency.

I agree with these fine fellows.

I would add that I'm not a conservative and I don't watch "Hardball", but I've never even heard of Liz Mair and Anne Coulter seems to be a professional troll. I don't know if either has any credibility on the issue. I Googled Mair, and all I could find was her Twitter feed and articles about this confrontation with Coulter. Not a good sign.

 

[Cutlass]

I'm on whichever side spares the planet from a "President Trump".

That aside,

Is he a fiscal conservative?

Is he a social conservative?

And is being more strenuously anti-illegal immigration fiscally or socially conservative?

Fiscal conservatism doesn't exist within the GOP, and hasn't for a long time. Trump would balloon the deficit with spending and tax cuts, just like all the rest of them. So he's 'conservative' by the GOP definition of conservative.

Social conservatism is a more mixed bag. Trump is racist and misogynistic. That appeals to many conservatives. But he doesn't seem to care as much about other issues, like gay marriage, that I've heard about.

Anti-immigrant is actually not as much the partisan issue as it appears at the moment. Prior to about 2006 the GOP absolutely loved illegal immigrants. And once the economy improves enough so that we have tight labor markets again, the GOP establishment will love them again. It's only when the job market is poor that the voice of the base anti-immigrant voter, which is working people, and racists, on all parts of the political spectrum gets loud enough so that the political establishment listens and panders to it. It's mainly a social conservative issue. But there are plenty of base Democratic voters (read labor) which are as opposed to it as there are base Republican voters.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Trump is more of an isolationist than the other Republican candidates, too. He thinks we made a mistake removing the strong-armed Middle Eastern dictators and believes that Europe should handle whatever happens in Eastern Europe.

From a November article published in The Atlantic:

[Trump has] distinguished himself from his establishment GOP rivals by opposing costly interventions in the greater Middle East. He’s said the wars in Iraq, Libya, and even Afghanistan were mistakes. He’s scorned democracy-promotion, saying he prefers dictators like Saddam Hussein and Bashar al-Assad to the chaos that follows. And when Vladimir Putin began bombing Syrian rebels last month, Trump responded, “Let Russia take care of ISIS. How many places can we be?”

 

[civvver]

Eh I actually see trump as more of an old school southern democrat type. I think they used to call those blue dogs? He also said he wants a 40% tariff on chinese imports to allow american jobs to compete. Does that sound like a GOP proposal? He's all over the place on everything, that's why they have such trouble with him. I think he has said other very non-GOP things about social programs as well, like expanding social security, I don't really remember as most of it is nonsensical. But basically his message tends to be pander to middle class american's/union families etc and just tell em anything you think they want to hear.

We don't really need a ton of new immigration policies anyway, we just need to enforce what we have.

 

[Cutlass]

What we have is fundamentally unenforceable. It can't be made to work. It's been failing for close to 30 years now.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

e don't really need a ton of new immigration policies anyway, we just need to enforce what we have.

You say this as if we aren't "enforcing what we have." Care to support that claim?

What we have is fundamentally unenforceable. It can't be made to work. It's been failing for close to 30 years now.

Failing in what way? That it doesn't work 100% like a magic shell around the country would? There is no magic.

Do people cross the US border illegally? Sure. There has never been a border people didn't cross.

Is it still possible to live in the US without a government proctoscope rammed so far up that it can peer out your eye to make sure you are properly documented? Yes, it is, even if you aren't an alien (trust me on that). It's just inconvenient (that too). It probably can't be MADE any less convenient without causing civil unrest.

 

[Kyriakos]

This sounds horrible. I think those people are beyond demagogues, they are primarily tv-personality clowns, and it is dangerous to have your election dominated by such. Trump fits entirely into this as well. In the past you would see such 'debates' in comedy parodies of debates.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I heard this broadcast on Sirius... and it was hi-larious... especially Ann Coulter's stunned silence in the face of Mair's articulate, fact-laden points/arguments... You could just sense her thinking "Uhh-oh... I have no idea how to respond to any of that, or any knowledge of anything she just talked about" and then she would just scoff, ignore and repeat what she originally stated... classic GOP punditry... gotta love Ann.

Anyway, that being said, Ann, like Trump, has a reputation for calling it like she sees it (or rather how she knows her constituents see it). And realize this... Ann Coulter knows her constituents well, which makes her very good at what she does. Also, love her or hate her, she called the 2012 race dead on the money (before the race even began) when she said "If you don't run Chris Christie, Romney will be the nominee and we'll (the Republicans) lose." Last night she said "Trump is going to be the nominee" and I believe her... If there is one thing Ann knows cold, its the desires of the Republican electorate.

 

[Kyriakos]

I heard this broadcast on Sirius... and it was hi-larious... especially Ann Coulter's stunned silence in the face of Mair's articulate, fact-laden points/arguments... You could just sense her thinking "Uhh-oh... I have no idea how to respond to any of that, or any knowledge of anything she just talked about" and then she would just scoff, ignore and repeat what she originally stated... classic GOP punditry... gotta love Ann.

Anyway, that being said, Ann, like Trump, has a reputation for calling it like she sees it (or rather how she knows her constituents see it). And realize this... Ann Coulter knows her constituents well, which makes her very good at what she does. Also, love her or hate her, she called the 2012 race dead on the money (before the race even began) when she said "If you don't run Chris Christie, Romney will be the nominee and we'll (the Republicans) lose." Last night she said "Trump is going to be the nominee" and I believe her... If there is one thing Ann knows cold, its the desires of the Republican electorate.

Eh, Christie is that rather fat and hugely corrupt governor of NJ? How would he win anyway?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

This sounds horrible. I think those people are beyond demagogues, they are primarily tv-personality clowns, and it is dangerous to have your election dominated by such. Trump fits entirely into this as well. In the past you would see such 'debates' in comedy parodies of debates.

LOL...what makes you think that "such" dominate our elections? Yes, TV personality clowns have their followings, but their uninformed followers tend to be lost in the great sea of the uninformed, which mostly balances out at the end of the day.

 

[Kyriakos]

LOL...what makes you think that "such" dominate our elections? Yes, TV personality clowns have their followings, but their uninformed followers tend to be lost in the great sea of the uninformed, which mostly balances out at the end of the day.

Hm. Not judging by anything i have ever seen written here about your elections..

It'd be great if it was true, though. For all countries. Soundbyte 'debates' are really a scam.