While We Wait: Boredom Strikes Back

[Dachs]

Nah, haven't got the time

 

[Abaddon]

SUMMARY: I'd prefer to not think about history at all unless I can use out of character obtained knowledge drawn from later periods to manipulate my stats and grow my color on the map. That way I can avoid research and learning about history as much as possible, which I need to avoid anyway if I am to save what little brain matter I have <snip>. I also don't understand there is a difference between plausible alternative paths and fantastical ones, and obfuscate to argue in favor of both, although unsurprisingly I want to be able to pursue the latter.

summary: wah wah wah, I can't hold an arguement without resorting to insults and attacking the apponent rather than the idea.

Wait, what?

Either I have to use research to "cheat" and abuse ooc information, or I can't be bothered/ lack the intelegence...

It can't be both, make up your mind!


Also, have you read my orders? Have you any examples of implausible things my nations have done?

 

[spryllino]

Also, have you read my orders? Have you any examples of implausible things my nations have done?

So you agree that you shouldn't do unrealistic things?

 

[qoou]

What do you all think of using modern economic theory, political theory, etc, to advance your not-so-modern NES country?

Probably difficult to avoid

No, I mean something like manipulating interest rates, or inflation, etc, to drive up exports, reduce imports to a particular nation, or such. These things were not thought of until the 20th century, and abusing them is not at all difficult to avoid. But, would you consider it cheating? After all, you could make the argument that your king just decided to do a little economic experiment using his personal theories, that just happened to be our modern economic theories.

 

[RPAdvantage]

I would think there would need to be some sort of political motivation to develop economic theories. Putting taxes on goods from other countries isn't a new idea, but you need to have colder relations with the other countries in order for it to make sense to a populace that would prefer a free trade.

 

[Masada]

... I dunno, but in my case it helps that just about everything you know about economics is wrong. Yay! But let's address some of the points raised quickly.

interest rates

How do you set them?

inflation

How do you manipulate that?

to drive up exports

What does this have to do with either of those?

reduce imports to a particular nation

How would that work?

After all, you could make the argument that your king just decided to do a little economic experiment using his personal theories, that just happened to be our modern economic theories.

Modern economic theories are counter-intuitive for the most part. Teaching basic economics to accountants has taught me that. You wouldn't just arrive at the right conclusions for the most part.

 

[North King]

Modern economic theories are counter-intuitive for the most part. Teaching basic economics to accountants has taught me that. You wouldn't just arrive at the right conclusions for the most part.

I believe that was his point...

 

[Dachs]

Maybe. I kinda got it as "we are stupid NESers who don't know crap about economics", which is mostly true in my case at least.

 

[Karalysia]

Free trade is folly anyway.

 

[Abaddon]

So you agree that you shouldn't do unrealistic things?

What is realistic? If a mod feels something is unrealistic it will probably fail.
This not the same as driving your nation in a different direction to otl.

Impossible, unlikely, unrealistic are all different things.

As long as it is not impossible; if the player can create a situation where it is realistic it should be doable.

Think of all the isolationist nations... What's stopping them make the opposite descision? Not much. It can't happen overnight sure, but a player should be able to alter their nations course...

 

[qoou]

How do you set them?

Nationalized banks? And I mean, interest rates are one thing that clearly can be abused: if you control your country's banks, and therefore interest rates, you can just lower them to hell, making your people want to invest in things; if you play your cards right, they'll choose to invest in your economy rather than foreign countries' economies, and bam, you've just boosted your growth rate. OOC, or not?

How do you manipulate that?

You print out a lot of money?

What does this have to do with either of those?

How would that work?

Exchange rates affect imports/exports (e.g. inflation means more exporting and less importing).

 

[Adrogans]

Yes, but I think the fear is why would a nation in the current situation set up a national bank. I am not saying it could happen faster but it would presuppose an educational level in economics far in advance of what it should be in the time period we are discussing (BJ NES 3). Or a truely insane ruler.

So realistic might be mroe along the lines of maybe having a ruler interested in studying the flow of money for say tax reasons or something that over time could grow into an earlier blooming of economic thought. Still would take a good bit of time though.

Its just so many may well say hey next year we are going to have a fully funtioning national bank! That's silly again in the time frame being discussed.

 

[qoou]

Yes, but I think the fear is why would a nation in the current situation set up a national bank. I am not saying it could happen faster but it would presuppose an educational level in economics far in advance of what it should be in the time period we are discussing (BJ NES 3). Or a truely insane ruler.

So realistic might be mroe along the lines of maybe having a ruler interested in studying the flow of money for say tax reasons or something that over time could grow into an earlier blooming of economic thought. Still would take a good bit of time though.

Its just so many may well say hey next year we are going to have a fully funtioning national bank! That's silly again in the time frame being discussed.

Oh, I was definitely not discussing BJNES 3 . I was actually somewhat thinking of ABNW; definitely a 19th-century or so scenario though.

 

[Birdjaguar]

What is realistic? If a mod feels something is unrealistic it will probably fail.
This not the same as driving your nation in a different direction to otl.

I try to restrict activity that was not possible in the game time frame, but allow creative thinking even if it is based on hindsight. I cannot stop players from knowing that North America (or perhaps North Diascia) exists. I cannot stop players from anticipating the strong possibility of a Reformation. The map will make exploration more challenging and as for the Reformation, well, we'll have to wait and see.

In OTL Venice and Genoa were great traders, but in this game there is little to stop them from becoming great explorers if they so choose. I like to be surprised by innovative play and a few players are treading down those paths.

 

[North King]

A quick two cents: The reason why I personally dislike people taking nations on really wacky courses compared to OTL, where we adopt the Western model for success because it's the one we know works, is because it is rather insulting to other cultures to simply chuck their world-views in the trash. Oh, the Indian states didn't succeed in real life so clearly they can only become a clone of Western Europe with a thin veneer of Hinduism to succeed! etc., etc.

Things are both much more fun and much more realistic if you figure out a different path to success, one that doesn't copy Europe but instead finds new ways of doing things by viewing technological and theoretical advances through a different paradigm... though it admittedly requires a lot more effort, so I can see why people might shy away from it.

 

[Cull]

I tried adopting state run education in YuiNESIII, the medieval one, and Yui slapped me down for that.

I generally think mod decision, but the player shouldn't go crazy either.

 

[Adrogans]

Oh, I was definitely not discussing BJNES 3 . I was actually somewhat thinking of ABNW; definitely a 19th-century or so scenario though.

Okay just checking, in that case yes such a thing would be perfectly fine to me. But I have heard of people trying stuff like you listed in a medieval/classical era.

 

[Masada]

I believe that was his point...

Was it? I don't believe so.

Nationalized banks? And I mean, interest rates are one thing that clearly can be abused: if you control your country's banks, and therefore interest rates, you can just lower them to hell, making your people want to invest in things; if you play your cards right, they'll choose to invest in your economy rather than foreign countries' economies, and bam, you've just boosted your growth rate. OOC, or not?

Right, well, coooool. That's only practical from about the thirties onwards. That doesn't really help the "world is you oyster crowd" in the least though does it? Besides, if you were willing to do that I would be willing to factor in the consequences in the form of rampant inflation and all kinds of fun wholly unintended consequences. There's far more problems in this statement that these, but I figure I might as well save myself some time and deal with the relevant ones rather than nitpicking at the edges.

You print out a lot of money?

Fiat currency: Thirties again.

Exchange rates affect imports/exports (e.g. inflation means more exporting and less importing).

Er, sure, well not really. But again thirties.

Oh, I was definitely not discussing BJNES 3 . I was actually somewhat thinking of ABNW; definitely a 19th-century or so scenario though.

Er, no.

Yes, but I think the fear is why would a nation in the current situation set up a national bank.

What is a "bank"? Double entry accounting isn't even that big a thing yet. The closest analogy for the kind of institutions you lot are dealing with is something between a loan shark and a property trust.

Oh, the Indian states didn't succeed in real life so clearly they can only become a clone of Western Europe with a thin veneer of Hinduism to succeed! etc., etc.

That's fine. Punish them hard for it.

 

[Terrance888]

A Bank is an institution that holds a reserve, saves money at an interest, and loans money at an interest. Banks conduct money from private citizens to other institutions that protect indivisuals within it called a Corporation through lending. It also pools money from any citizens to lend to other citizens via loans as well, for the citizen to use and to pay back. Banks let a small amount of saving be turned into quite a few crucial loads for quite a few other groups, which will increase wages, productivity, employees, branches or other factors, which will increase money available to citizens, who will buy more stuff or put it in the bank. And so on.

 

[Abaddon]

Thankyou captain obvious?